From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Release plans Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 15:07:25 +0900 Message-ID: <87vdxlfzaa.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <20080818101802.GA2615@muc.de> <87bpzqqk7b.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <20080818210927.GD2615@muc.de> <87wsidnxqp.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <20080819155221.GA11524@muc.de> <871w0dcg6j.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <20080825220105.GA13599@muc.de> <87prnwgyvc.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <20080826100216.GA2505@muc.de> <87hc97ggq7.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <20080827210618.GA5374@muc.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1219903628 7331 80.91.229.12 (28 Aug 2008 06:07:08 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 06:07:08 +0000 (UTC) Cc: hannes@saeurebad.de, rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Alan Mackenzie Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Aug 28 08:08:00 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1KYafo-0004On-81 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 28 Aug 2008 08:08:00 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53822 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KYaep-0005eR-PE for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 28 Aug 2008 02:06:59 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KYaek-0005ad-7F for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 28 Aug 2008 02:06:54 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KYaej-0005Z6-NA for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 28 Aug 2008 02:06:53 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=53253 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KYaej-0005Yw-9r for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 28 Aug 2008 02:06:53 -0400 Original-Received: from mtps02.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp ([130.158.97.224]:36123) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KYaeb-0003eI-6d; Thu, 28 Aug 2008 02:06:45 -0400 Original-Received: from uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp [130.158.99.156]) by mtps02.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A70197FFD; Thu, 28 Aug 2008 15:06:43 +0900 (JST) Original-Received: by uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix, from userid 1000) id E831D1A2E28; Thu, 28 Aug 2008 15:07:25 +0900 (JST) In-Reply-To: <20080827210618.GA5374@muc.de> X-Mailer: VM ?bug? under XEmacs 21.5.21 (x86_64-unknown-linux) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:103096 Alan Mackenzie writes: > Hey, I'm allowed to think, amn't I? :-) Of course, but when it comes to what I'm talking about, please think what I tell you to.[1] :-) > "When" XEmacs -> GPL3? I take it you've settled this, then. We really don't have much choice, since most Lisp is maintained by third parties, and Emacs is just 'nano' on steroids without all the Lisp. We've got some legal i's to dot and t's to cross, and we need to think about how to deal with backward compatibility, which we care about even though GNU does not. But it's definitely coming. > By the way, is there any way in the XEmacs website to get the > history of individual source files? I couldn't find any when I > looked today. Not at the website per se, but there's ViewCVS at http://cvs.xemacs.org/ for the packages and 21.4, and there's probably a Mercurial equivalent at http://hg.debian.org/xemacs/ for 21.5. > > With a binary module loader, we might be able to develop them faster > > and head off the proprietary versions---there might well be less. > > Possibly. But there's no way to test this safely. It's got to be judged > by insight and guesswork. I disagree. Watch XEmacs and SXEmacs. The flag-carrying battleship is safe, but there are a few cruisers out there engaged with the opponent. > > Who's ignoring 6 billion people now? Nothing in the GPL creates > > lock-in, no, but 99.9999% of humanity doesn't have the skills! So > > they are locked in unless the market provides for them. > > Look, Stephen, I've probably given you the impression over my last few > posts that I was merely winding you up, trolling you. No, not at all. And in any case it's surely mutual; at least on my side there were quite incorrect expectations about what you know, and have thought carefully about. > If so, I'm sorry about that; everything I've written was sincerely > meant. No apology is needed. > > IMO, the free software distribution model offers very little to those > > people in the way of hope that their needs will be met. Jury's still > > out, but I don't know any office-type users who prefer a working Ubuntu > > to a working Windows. Windows has more of the apps they want. Some > > still choose the reliability etc of a GNU/Linux distro, but they're > > painfully aware of being behind the curve in most application areas. > > Yes. Sadly. At the moment. Sadly, I think we are now at the point where we need to put a period. We've come to agreement on the questions, but don't have answers that satisfy all the relevant decision makers. Yet. See ya! Footnotes: [1] This is a reference to an actual response by a Japanese career bureaucrat to a question at a press conference. *I*'m not serious but I couldn't resist, as I just arrived back here Through the Looking Glass and am not *not* NOT enjoying the bureaucracy, although the food is wonderful.