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From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" <stephen@xemacs.org>
To: Dani Moncayo <dmoncayo@gmail.com>
Cc: Juanma Barranquero <lekktu@gmail.com>,
	Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>,
	monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Proposal to improve the nomenclature of scrolling directions
Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2012 12:29:52 +0900	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <87vcdkiv67.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAH8Pv0iUxLnZLE55Gos3WXnU8F=zOz4X4NU4cvu+UQsjppJwPg@mail.gmail.com>

Dani Moncayo writes:

 > Therefore, we should find a general solution for this.

There's only one "general solution": prohibit from using Emacs all
those people who disagree with your intuition of what's moving.  I've
seen this discussion several times on both the XEmacs and Emacs lists,
and the end is always inconclusive.  The best you can do is simply
choose a consistent terminology, accepting that a large number of
people will never agree.  AFAIK that's already been achieved, by
choosing more or less arbitrarily[1] what makes sense to RMS.

FWIW, for me personally "view" has no useful semantics here.  It
simply indicates a visible region of the buffer.  "Scroll" means the
buffer content moves "in the view".  The idea that the view moves
makes no sense to me because of the ergonomics: moving view means your
eyes have to move, while moving content brings the content to your
focal point.  Also, in "scroll-view" the word "view" is redundant,
because scrolling implies that the view is restricted.  Net results is
that "scroll-up" should mean content "below" the view should "move up"
into it.  So my intuition agrees with current Emacs practice.

Since I agree with current practice, it's a weak test but I believe
this doesn't actually matter.  My fingers know what to do regardless
of the name.



Footnotes: 
[1]  At best a poll was taken, but surely no proper ergonomic study
was done!




  parent reply	other threads:[~2012-11-05  3:29 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 97+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2012-11-04 14:10 Proposal to improve the nomenclature of scrolling directions Dani Moncayo
2012-11-04 14:37 ` Stefan Monnier
2012-11-04 15:00   ` Dani Moncayo
2012-11-04 17:07     ` Juanma Barranquero
2012-11-04 17:30       ` Dani Moncayo
2012-11-04 17:31       ` Eli Zaretskii
2012-11-04 17:35         ` Dani Moncayo
2012-11-04 18:23           ` Eli Zaretskii
2012-11-04 19:10             ` Dani Moncayo
2012-11-04 19:39               ` Eli Zaretskii
2012-11-04 20:01                 ` Dani Moncayo
2012-11-05 11:07                 ` Richard Stallman
2012-11-05 12:25                   ` Dani Moncayo
2012-11-05 14:56                     ` Nix
2012-11-05 15:39                       ` Teemu Likonen
2012-11-07  8:12                       ` Harald Hanche-Olsen
2012-11-13  9:05                         ` Bastien
2012-11-13 17:05                           ` Stefan Monnier
2012-11-05  3:29           ` Stephen J. Turnbull [this message]
2012-11-05  7:27             ` Dani Moncayo
2012-11-05 12:44             ` Jambunathan K
2012-11-05  2:44     ` Stefan Monnier
2012-11-05  7:24       ` Dani Moncayo
2012-11-05 23:32         ` Stefan Monnier
2012-11-06 21:29           ` Daniel Hackney
2012-11-05 11:06 ` Richard Stallman
2012-11-05 15:00   ` Nix
2012-11-06  1:25     ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2012-11-06 17:24       ` Adrian Robert
2012-11-06 17:36         ` Eli Zaretskii
2012-11-06 17:50         ` Drew Adams
2012-11-06 19:14           ` John Yates
2012-11-05 18:05 ` Daniel Hackney
2012-11-06  1:53   ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2012-11-07 16:31     ` Nix
2012-11-08  1:49       ` Stefan Monnier
2012-11-08 17:33         ` Nix
2012-11-08 18:14           ` Eli Barzilay
2012-11-08 18:18             ` Nix
2012-11-08 18:39               ` Eli Barzilay
2012-11-08 18:39               ` Stefan Monnier
2012-11-09  9:50                 ` martin rudalics
2012-11-09 14:18                   ` Stefan Monnier
2012-11-08 18:40               ` Eli Zaretskii
2012-11-08 18:48                 ` Juanma Barranquero
2012-11-08 19:29                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2012-11-09  2:52                 ` Richard Stallman
2012-11-09  7:35                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2012-11-09 14:20                     ` Nix
2012-11-09 14:56                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2012-11-09 20:24                         ` Nix
2012-11-10 11:09                         ` martin rudalics
2012-11-10 11:40                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2012-11-10 14:11                             ` martin rudalics
2012-11-10  0:13                     ` Richard Stallman
2012-11-10  7:42                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2012-11-10 11:09                         ` martin rudalics
2012-11-10 11:45                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2012-11-10 11:48                             ` Nix
2012-11-10 14:38                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2012-11-10 14:47                                 ` Nix
2012-11-10 14:10                             ` martin rudalics
2012-11-10 14:49                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2012-11-10 18:50                                 ` martin rudalics
2012-11-10 19:09                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2012-11-10 11:10                       ` martin rudalics
2012-11-10 11:46                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2012-11-10 14:12                           ` martin rudalics
2012-11-09  9:51           ` martin rudalics
2012-11-09 14:19             ` Stefan Monnier
2012-11-10 11:05               ` martin rudalics
2012-11-08  7:18       ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2012-11-08 11:12         ` Stephen Leake
2012-11-08 15:43           ` Drew Adams
2012-11-08 17:35             ` Nix
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2012-11-06 17:55 Dmitry Gutov
2012-11-07  0:53 ` Richard Stallman
2012-11-07 15:17   ` Drew Adams
2012-11-07 16:23     ` Eli Zaretskii
2012-11-07 18:03       ` Drew Adams
2012-11-07 18:34         ` Eli Zaretskii
2012-11-07 21:00           ` Drew Adams
2012-11-07 21:17             ` Eli Zaretskii
2012-11-08 22:18         ` Daniel Hackney
2012-11-07 21:12   ` Mathias Dahl
2012-11-07 21:41     ` Dmitry Gutov
2012-11-08 19:26       ` Bruce Korb
2012-11-13  9:07       ` Bastien
     [not found] <201211080338.qA83c7NY006393@winooski.ccs.neu.edu>
     [not found] ` <20635.16010.769769.433949@winooski.ccs.neu.edu>
2012-11-08 16:48   ` Stefan Monnier
2012-11-09  9:50     ` martin rudalics
2012-11-09 14:17       ` Stefan Monnier
2012-11-09 15:27         ` Eli Barzilay
2012-11-10 11:05         ` martin rudalics
2012-11-10 11:38           ` Eli Zaretskii
2012-11-10 14:09             ` martin rudalics
2012-11-10 14:40               ` Eli Zaretskii
2012-11-10 18:49                 ` martin rudalics

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