[org-e-texinfo] generate menu items

[org-e-texinfo] generate menu items

[Thomas S. Dye]

Aloha all,

An Org manual convention uses title case for the main menu and sentence
case for chapter heads, e.g., the chapter "Document structure" shows up
in the main menu as "Document Structure".

I haven't been able to get the texinfo exporter to do this.

Perhaps org-e-texinfo--generate-menu-items could check the EXPORT_TITLE
property?  Something like this might make sense:

* Document structure
  :PROPERTIES:
  :DESCRIPTION: A tree works like your brain
  :EXPORT_TITLE: Document Structure
  :END:

All the best,
Tom
-- 
T.S. Dye & Colleagues, Archaeologists
735 Bishop St, Suite 315, Honolulu, HI 96813
Tel: 808-529-0866, Fax: 808-529-0884
http://www.tsdye.com

Re: [org-e-texinfo] generate menu items

[Nicolas Goaziou]

Hello,

tsd@tsdye.com (Thomas S. Dye) writes:

> An Org manual convention uses title case for the main menu and sentence
> case for chapter heads, e.g., the chapter "Document structure" shows up
> in the main menu as "Document Structure".
>
> I haven't been able to get the texinfo exporter to do this.
>
> Perhaps org-e-texinfo--generate-menu-items could check the EXPORT_TITLE
> property?  Something like this might make sense:
>
> * Document structure
>   :PROPERTIES:
>   :DESCRIPTION: A tree works like your brain
>   :EXPORT_TITLE: Document Structure
>   :END:

EXPORT_TITLE property is meant to provide a title for a subtree export.
This is a wrong way to use it like that. On the other hand, wouldn't it
be possible to simply `capitalize' menu entries?


Regards,

-- 
Nicolas Goaziou

Re: [org-e-texinfo] generate menu items

[Thomas S. Dye]

Nicolas Goaziou <n.goaziou@gmail.com> writes:

> Hello,
>
> tsd@tsdye.com (Thomas S. Dye) writes:
>
>> An Org manual convention uses title case for the main menu and sentence
>> case for chapter heads, e.g., the chapter "Document structure" shows up
>> in the main menu as "Document Structure".
>>
>> I haven't been able to get the texinfo exporter to do this.
>>
>> Perhaps org-e-texinfo--generate-menu-items could check the EXPORT_TITLE
>> property?  Something like this might make sense:
>>
>> * Document structure
>>   :PROPERTIES:
>>   :DESCRIPTION: A tree works like your brain
>>   :EXPORT_TITLE: Document Structure
>>   :END:
>
> EXPORT_TITLE property is meant to provide a title for a subtree export.
> This is a wrong way to use it like that. 

Agreed.  Perhaps a new property, OPTIONAL_TITLE?  The texinfo back-end
could use this in menus and the latex back-end could pass it to the
sectioning command, e.g., \chapter[optional]{title} (if this isn't
already possible).

> On the other hand, wouldn't it
> be possible to simply `capitalize' menu entries?

I don't think so.  We want either sentence case (Properties and columns)
or title case (Properties and Columns), not capitalized (Properties And
Columns). 

All the best,
Tom

-- 
T.S. Dye & Colleagues, Archaeologists
735 Bishop St, Suite 315, Honolulu, HI 96813
Tel: 808-529-0866, Fax: 808-529-0884
http://www.tsdye.com

Re: [org-e-texinfo] generate menu items

[Nicolas Goaziou]

tsd@tsdye.com (Thomas S. Dye) writes:

> Agreed.  Perhaps a new property, OPTIONAL_TITLE?  The texinfo back-end
> could use this in menus and the latex back-end could pass it to the
> sectioning command, e.g., \chapter[optional]{title} (if this isn't
> already possible).

Back-ends can indeed use specific properties (Beamer back-end does it
with "BEAMER_ENV" and so on). Though, I suggest to prefix the property
name with the name of the backend: "TEXINFO_OPTIONAL_TITLE" (perhaps
a bit verbose).

Then, one can access to it from the headline translator with:

  (org-element-property :texinfo-optional-title headline)

Anyway, Jonathan Leech-Pepin will decide what to do about that.


Regards,

-- 
Nicolas Goaziou

Re: [org-e-texinfo] generate menu items

[Thomas S. Dye]

Nicolas Goaziou <n.goaziou@gmail.com> writes:

> tsd@tsdye.com (Thomas S. Dye) writes:
>
>> Agreed.  Perhaps a new property, OPTIONAL_TITLE?  The texinfo back-end
>> could use this in menus and the latex back-end could pass it to the
>> sectioning command, e.g., \chapter[optional]{title} (if this isn't
>> already possible).
>
> Back-ends can indeed use specific properties (Beamer back-end does it
> with "BEAMER_ENV" and so on). Though, I suggest to prefix the property
> name with the name of the backend: "TEXINFO_OPTIONAL_TITLE" (perhaps
> a bit verbose).
>
> Then, one can access to it from the headline translator with:
>
>   (org-element-property :texinfo-optional-title headline)
>
> Anyway, Jonathan Leech-Pepin will decide what to do about that.

I looked in org-e-latex.el but didn't find a way to set the optional
argument to a sectioning command.  Is there currently a way to set this
argument? 

All the best,
Tom

-- 
Thomas S. Dye
http://www.tsdye.com

Re: [org-e-texinfo] generate menu items

[Nicolas Goaziou]

tsd@tsdye.com (Thomas S. Dye) writes:

> Nicolas Goaziou <n.goaziou@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> tsd@tsdye.com (Thomas S. Dye) writes:
>>
>>> Agreed.  Perhaps a new property, OPTIONAL_TITLE?  The texinfo back-end
>>> could use this in menus and the latex back-end could pass it to the
>>> sectioning command, e.g., \chapter[optional]{title} (if this isn't
>>> already possible).
>>
>> Back-ends can indeed use specific properties (Beamer back-end does it
>> with "BEAMER_ENV" and so on). Though, I suggest to prefix the property
>> name with the name of the backend: "TEXINFO_OPTIONAL_TITLE" (perhaps
>> a bit verbose).
>>
>> Then, one can access to it from the headline translator with:
>>
>>   (org-element-property :texinfo-optional-title headline)
>>
>> Anyway, Jonathan Leech-Pepin will decide what to do about that.
>
> I looked in org-e-latex.el but didn't find a way to set the optional
> argument to a sectioning command.  Is there currently a way to set this
> argument?

No there isn't.

I had overlooked the fact that you wanted the property to be effective
across back-ends. So, it would define how the entry should appear in the
table of contents in every back-end where it makes sense.

That's a bit of work, because, so far, node-property values are not
parsed. So it would require to define a new class of node-properties:
those with a parsed value. But then, how to decide which properties have
their value parsed are parsed and which have not?


Regards,

-- 
Nicolas Goaziou

Re: [org-e-texinfo] generate menu items

[Thomas S. Dye]

Nicolas Goaziou <n.goaziou@gmail.com> writes:

> tsd@tsdye.com (Thomas S. Dye) writes:
>
>> Nicolas Goaziou <n.goaziou@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> tsd@tsdye.com (Thomas S. Dye) writes:
>>>
>>>> Agreed.  Perhaps a new property, OPTIONAL_TITLE?  The texinfo back-end
>>>> could use this in menus and the latex back-end could pass it to the
>>>> sectioning command, e.g., \chapter[optional]{title} (if this isn't
>>>> already possible).
>>>
>>> Back-ends can indeed use specific properties (Beamer back-end does it
>>> with "BEAMER_ENV" and so on). Though, I suggest to prefix the property
>>> name with the name of the backend: "TEXINFO_OPTIONAL_TITLE" (perhaps
>>> a bit verbose).
>>>
>>> Then, one can access to it from the headline translator with:
>>>
>>>   (org-element-property :texinfo-optional-title headline)
>>>
>>> Anyway, Jonathan Leech-Pepin will decide what to do about that.
>>
>> I looked in org-e-latex.el but didn't find a way to set the optional
>> argument to a sectioning command.  Is there currently a way to set this
>> argument?
>
> No there isn't.
>
> I had overlooked the fact that you wanted the property to be effective
> across back-ends. So, it would define how the entry should appear in the
> table of contents in every back-end where it makes sense.
>
> That's a bit of work, because, so far, node-property values are not
> parsed. So it would require to define a new class of node-properties:
> those with a parsed value. But then, how to decide which properties have
> their value parsed are parsed and which have not?

Thanks for the information and explanation.  Back-end-specific
properties should work nicely in this case.

I'll wait to see what Jonathan thinks about the original query.

All the best,
Tom

-- 
T.S. Dye & Colleagues, Archaeologists
735 Bishop St, Suite 315, Honolulu, HI 96813
Tel: 808-529-0866, Fax: 808-529-0884
http://www.tsdye.com

Re: [org-e-texinfo] generate menu items

[Nicolas Goaziou]

tsd@tsdye.com (Thomas S. Dye) writes:

> Nicolas Goaziou <n.goaziou@gmail.com> writes:

>> That's a bit of work, because, so far, node-property values are not
>> parsed. So it would require to define a new class of node-properties:
>> those with a parsed value. But then, how to decide which properties have
>> their value parsed are parsed and which have not?

> Thanks for the information and explanation.  Back-end-specific
> properties should work nicely in this case.
>
> I'll wait to see what Jonathan thinks about the original query.

Assuming :EXPORT_TITLE:, :EXPORT_AUTHOR:, :EXPORT_DATE: and this
one, :EXPORT_TOC_ENTRY: (?), will be the only ones being parsed, I can
give it a try.

I would be consistent with #+caption[short]: long for other elements.


Regards,

-- 
Nicolas Goaziou

Re: [org-e-texinfo] generate menu items

[Thomas S. Dye]

Nicolas Goaziou <n.goaziou@gmail.com> writes:

> tsd@tsdye.com (Thomas S. Dye) writes:
>
>> Nicolas Goaziou <n.goaziou@gmail.com> writes:
>
>>> That's a bit of work, because, so far, node-property values are not
>>> parsed. So it would require to define a new class of node-properties:
>>> those with a parsed value. But then, how to decide which properties have
>>> their value parsed are parsed and which have not?
>
>> Thanks for the information and explanation.  Back-end-specific
>> properties should work nicely in this case.
>>
>> I'll wait to see what Jonathan thinks about the original query.
>
> Assuming :EXPORT_TITLE:, :EXPORT_AUTHOR:, :EXPORT_DATE: and this
> one, :EXPORT_TOC_ENTRY: (?), will be the only ones being parsed, I can
> give it a try.
>
> I would be consistent with #+caption[short]: long for other elements.
>
>
> Regards,

I'm biased by LaTeX, which uses the optional argument for the TOC and
running heads. Since the back-ends are free to use this optional entry
as they please, and not only for the TOC, perhaps :EXPORT_SHORT_ENTRY:
(because that is its usual function), or :EXPORT_OPTIONAL_ENTRY:
(because the back-end has the option to use it where appropriate).

All the best,
Tom

-- 
Thomas S. Dye
http://www.tsdye.com

Re: [org-e-texinfo] generate menu items

[Jonathan Leech-Pepin]

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Hello Tom, Nicolas,

I've just pushed a change that should provide the desired results.

The optional title for the menu entries (as well as associated node
headings) can be set using the :TEXINFO_MENU_TITLE: property.

On 18 November 2012 11:22, Thomas S. Dye <tsd@tsdye.com> wrote:

> Nicolas Goaziou <n.goaziou@gmail.com> writes:
>
> > tsd@tsdye.com (Thomas S. Dye) writes:
> >
> >> Nicolas Goaziou <n.goaziou@gmail.com> writes:
> >
> >>> That's a bit of work, because, so far, node-property values are not
> >>> parsed. So it would require to define a new class of node-properties:
> >>> those with a parsed value. But then, how to decide which properties
> have
> >>> their value parsed are parsed and which have not?
> >
> >> Thanks for the information and explanation.  Back-end-specific
> >> properties should work nicely in this case.
> >>
> >> I'll wait to see what Jonathan thinks about the original query.
> >
> > Assuming :EXPORT_TITLE:, :EXPORT_AUTHOR:, :EXPORT_DATE: and this
> > one, :EXPORT_TOC_ENTRY: (?), will be the only ones being parsed, I can
> > give it a try.
> >
>

If you do include these node properties I can then adjust the texinfo
exporter to use the generic TOC/Optional title property rather than a
backend specific one.


Regards,

--
Jon


> > I would be consistent with #+caption[short]: long for other elements.
> >
> >
> > Regards,
>
> I'm biased by LaTeX, which uses the optional argument for the TOC and
> running heads. Since the back-ends are free to use this optional entry
> as they please, and not only for the TOC, perhaps :EXPORT_SHORT_ENTRY:
> (because that is its usual function), or :EXPORT_OPTIONAL_ENTRY:
> (because the back-end has the option to use it where appropriate).
>
> All the best,
> Tom
>
> --
> Thomas S. Dye
> http://www.tsdye.com
>
>

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Re: [org-e-texinfo] generate menu items

[Thomas S. Dye]

Aloha Jon,

Thanks very much for these changes, which appear to work nicely with the
draft Org manual.

What do you think about the various macro commands defined in org.texi?
How to put them in the Org file and then get them into the texinfo
output? The org.texi file has them between @finalout and @copying. I
don't know if they have to be there, but I assume they were put there
for a reason.

All the best,
Tom

Jonathan Leech-Pepin <jonathan.leechpepin@gmail.com> writes:

> Hello Tom, Nicolas,
>
> I've just pushed a change that should provide the desired results.
>
> The optional title for the menu entries (as well as associated node
> headings) can be set using the :TEXINFO_MENU_TITLE: property.
>
> On 18 November 2012 11:22, Thomas S. Dye <tsd@tsdye.com> wrote:
>
>> Nicolas Goaziou <n.goaziou@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>> > tsd@tsdye.com (Thomas S. Dye) writes:
>> >
>> >> Nicolas Goaziou <n.goaziou@gmail.com> writes:
>> >
>> >>> That's a bit of work, because, so far, node-property values are not
>> >>> parsed. So it would require to define a new class of node-properties:
>> >>> those with a parsed value. But then, how to decide which properties
>> have
>> >>> their value parsed are parsed and which have not?
>> >
>> >> Thanks for the information and explanation.  Back-end-specific
>> >> properties should work nicely in this case.
>> >>
>> >> I'll wait to see what Jonathan thinks about the original query.
>> >
>> > Assuming :EXPORT_TITLE:, :EXPORT_AUTHOR:, :EXPORT_DATE: and this
>> > one, :EXPORT_TOC_ENTRY: (?), will be the only ones being parsed, I can
>> > give it a try.
>> >
>>
>
> If you do include these node properties I can then adjust the texinfo
> exporter to use the generic TOC/Optional title property rather than a
> backend specific one.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> --
> Jon
>
>
>> > I would be consistent with #+caption[short]: long for other elements.
>> >
>> >
>> > Regards,
>>
>> I'm biased by LaTeX, which uses the optional argument for the TOC and
>> running heads. Since the back-ends are free to use this optional entry
>> as they please, and not only for the TOC, perhaps :EXPORT_SHORT_ENTRY:
>> (because that is its usual function), or :EXPORT_OPTIONAL_ENTRY:
>> (because the back-end has the option to use it where appropriate).
>>
>> All the best,
>> Tom
>>
>> --
>> Thomas S. Dye
>> http://www.tsdye.com
>>
>>
> Hello Tom, Nicolas,
>
> I've just pushed a change that should provide the desired results.
>
> The optional title for the menu entries (as well as associated node
> headings) can be set using the :TEXINFO_MENU_TITLE: property.
>
> On 18 November 2012 11:22, Thomas S. Dye <tsd@tsdye.com> wrote:
>
>     
>     Nicolas Goaziou <n.goaziou@gmail.com> writes:
>     
>     > tsd@tsdye.com (Thomas S. Dye) writes:
>     >
>     >> Nicolas Goaziou <n.goaziou@gmail.com> writes:
>     >
>     >>> That's a bit of work, because, so far, node-property values
>     are not
>     >>> parsed. So it would require to define a new class of
>     node-properties:
>     >>> those with a parsed value. But then, how to decide which
>     properties have
>     >>> their value parsed are parsed and which have not?
>     >
>     >> Thanks for the information and explanation.  Back-end-specific
>     >> properties should work nicely in this case.
>     >>
>     >> I'll wait to see what Jonathan thinks about the original query.
>     >
>     > Assuming :EXPORT_TITLE:, :EXPORT_AUTHOR:, :EXPORT_DATE: and this
>     > one, :EXPORT_TOC_ENTRY: (?), will be the only ones being parsed,
>     I can
>     > give it a try.
>     >
>     
>
> If you do include these node properties I can then adjust the texinfo
> exporter to use the generic TOC/Optional title property rather than a
> backend specific one.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> --
> Jon
>  
>
>     
>     > I would be consistent with #+caption[short]: long for other
>     elements.
>     >
>     >
>     > Regards,
>     
>     
>     I'm biased by LaTeX, which uses the optional argument for the TOC
>     and
>     running heads. Since the back-ends are free to use this optional
>     entry
>     as they please, and not only for the TOC, perhaps
>     :EXPORT_SHORT_ENTRY:
>     (because that is its usual function), or :EXPORT_OPTIONAL_ENTRY:
>     (because the back-end has the option to use it where appropriate).
>     
>     
>     All the best,
>     Tom
>     
>     --
>     
>     
>     Thomas S. Dye
>     http://www.tsdye.com
>     
>     
>

-- 
Thomas S. Dye
http://www.tsdye.com

Re: [org-e-texinfo] generate menu items

[Nicolas Goaziou]

Hello,

Jonathan Leech-Pepin <jonathan.leechpepin@gmail.com> writes:

> Hello Tom, Nicolas,
>
> I've just pushed a change that should provide the desired results.
>
> The optional title for the menu entries (as well as associated node
> headings) can be set using the :TEXINFO_MENU_TITLE: property.
>
> On 18 November 2012 11:22, Thomas S. Dye <tsd@tsdye.com> wrote:
>
>> Nicolas Goaziou <n.goaziou@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>> > tsd@tsdye.com (Thomas S. Dye) writes:
>> >
>> >> Nicolas Goaziou <n.goaziou@gmail.com> writes:
>> >
>> >>> That's a bit of work, because, so far, node-property values are not
>> >>> parsed. So it would require to define a new class of node-properties:
>> >>> those with a parsed value. But then, how to decide which properties
>> have
>> >>> their value parsed are parsed and which have not?
>> >
>> >> Thanks for the information and explanation.  Back-end-specific
>> >> properties should work nicely in this case.
>> >>
>> >> I'll wait to see what Jonathan thinks about the original query.
>> >
>> > Assuming :EXPORT_TITLE:, :EXPORT_AUTHOR:, :EXPORT_DATE: and this
>> > one, :EXPORT_TOC_ENTRY: (?), will be the only ones being parsed, I can
>> > give it a try.
>> >
>>
>
> If you do include these node properties I can then adjust the texinfo
> exporter to use the generic TOC/Optional title property rather than a
> backend specific one.

I eventually added :OPTIONAL_TITLE: property. Get its parsed value with
`org-export-get-optional-title' function.

I patched ox-ascii, ox-latex and ox-html so they use it when building
a TOC. I think only ox-odt and ox-texinfo are missing.

Jonathan, could you have a look at it?

Thank you.


Regards,

-- 
Nicolas Goaziou

Re: [org-e-texinfo] generate menu items

[Jonathan Leech-Pepin]

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Hello,

On 23 February 2013 18:04, Nicolas Goaziou <n.goaziou@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> [...]
>
> I eventually added :OPTIONAL_TITLE: property. Get its parsed value with
> `org-export-get-optional-title' function.
>
> I patched ox-ascii, ox-latex and ox-html so they use it when building
> a TOC. I think only ox-odt and ox-texinfo are missing.
>
> Jonathan, could you have a look at it?
>

I've replaced the use of :TEXINFO_MENU_TITLE: with :OPTIONAL_TITLE:.

Tom,

This will cause the menu titles to no longer export properly until you
change the property names.

Regards,

--
Jon


> Thank you.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> --
> Nicolas Goaziou
>

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Re: [org-e-texinfo] generate menu items

[Nicolas Goaziou]

Hello,

Jonathan Leech-Pepin <jonathan.leechpepin@gmail.com> writes:

> I've replaced the use of :TEXINFO_MENU_TITLE: with :OPTIONAL_TITLE:.

Thank you for looking into it.

Though, please use `org-export-get-optional-title' function instead.
OPTIONAL_TITLE property only contains the raw string. The function will
return the parsed string.

Note: the function may be renamed soon, but I'll take care of that when
it happens.


Regards,

-- 
Nicolas Goaziou

Re: [org-e-texinfo] generate menu items

[Jonathan Leech-Pepin]

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Hello

On 25 February 2013 11:09, Nicolas Goaziou <n.goaziou@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> Jonathan Leech-Pepin <jonathan.leechpepin@gmail.com> writes:
>
> > I've replaced the use of :TEXINFO_MENU_TITLE: with :OPTIONAL_TITLE:.
>
> Thank you for looking into it.
>
> Though, please use `org-export-get-optional-title' function instead.
> OPTIONAL_TITLE property only contains the raw string. The function will
> return the parsed string.
>
> I actually did use (org-export-get-optional-title), I just wrote the wrong
information
in the changelog.  Sorry

Regards,

Jon


> Note: the function may be renamed soon, but I'll take care of that when
> it happens.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> --
> Nicolas Goaziou
>

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Re: [org-e-texinfo] generate menu items

[Thomas S. Dye]

Hi Jon,

Jonathan Leech-Pepin <jonathan.leechpepin@gmail.com> writes:

> Hello,
>
> On 23 February 2013 18:04, Nicolas Goaziou <n.goaziou@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> [...]
>>
>> I eventually added :OPTIONAL_TITLE: property. Get its parsed value with
>> `org-export-get-optional-title' function.
>>
>> I patched ox-ascii, ox-latex and ox-html so they use it when building
>> a TOC. I think only ox-odt and ox-texinfo are missing.
>>
>> Jonathan, could you have a look at it?
>>
>
> I've replaced the use of :TEXINFO_MENU_TITLE: with :OPTIONAL_TITLE:.
>
> Tom,
>
> This will cause the menu titles to no longer export properly until you
> change the property names.

I can confirm that this works.

Thanks!

All the best,
Tom
-- 
Thomas S. Dye
http://www.tsdye.com