From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.comp.gcc.devel,gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: clang and FSF's strategy Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2014 11:52:04 +0100 Message-ID: <87vbxbezsb.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> References: <20140121201949.21DE1380522@snark.thyrsus.com> <1390401184.29263.5.camel@Iris> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1390474364 23265 80.91.229.3 (23 Jan 2014 10:52:44 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2014 10:52:44 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: gcc@gcc.gnu.org Original-X-From: gcc-return-181674-gcc=m.gmane.org@gcc.gnu.org Thu Jan 23 11:52:51 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: gcc@plane.gmane.org Original-Received: from server1.sourceware.org ([209.132.180.131] helo=sourceware.org) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1W6Hty-0001Mn-87 for gcc@plane.gmane.org; Thu, 23 Jan 2014 11:52:50 +0100 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gcc.gnu.org; h=list-id :list-unsubscribe:list-archive:list-post:list-help:sender:to :from:subject:date:message-id:references:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:cc; q=dns; s=default; b= DU7qi3dpObfH+EA49523inyDdC5Zpk9EAsDmEyVygA1FqA3XBpR2vdc7NxIOnvvV bpKXcTWH3K52R1tZxumrDAtJBzpdsDV5zLtadKGq7sJDJwMzQYq6wjkghQC5wAQF fcbeV7dg9euKNyZEV0Obqus8XUTV/R4ApDFboIo4sM8= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=gcc.gnu.org; h=list-id :list-unsubscribe:list-archive:list-post:list-help:sender:to :from:subject:date:message-id:references:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:cc; s=default; bh=3lqa0e 1m/nfKzHUYrsOrkFx+3pU=; b=n+I4SWECyltj4AnhZdOzDUG3SQ+GfTBhwlgAfZ jYqdVOTHKdrgYTnzI0zZ3Z+vXZGk9Tz6xPMPAweixJ4FkWLldfJ9lvlZb9IALD9/ TZJ/ShP92fTveqCWk8ttdedLGvJXXa777guRVfvHw7HmN6O2/Gx4pWvyxPfalGrK CM70o= Original-Received: (qmail 8224 invoked by alias); 23 Jan 2014 10:52:26 -0000 Mailing-List: contact gcc-help@gcc.gnu.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: Original-Sender: gcc-owner@gcc.gnu.org Original-Received: (qmail 8152 invoked by uid 89); 23 Jan 2014 10:52:26 -0000 Authentication-Results: sourceware.org; auth=none X-Virus-Found: No X-Spam-SWARE-Status: No, score=-0.7 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE,RP_MATCHES_RCVD,SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.3.2 X-HELO: plane.gmane.org Original-Received: from plane.gmane.org (HELO plane.gmane.org) (80.91.229.3) by sourceware.org (qpsmtpd/0.93/v0.84-503-g423c35a) with (AES256-SHA encrypted) ESMTPS; Thu, 23 Jan 2014 10:52:25 +0000 Original-Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1W6HtV-0001B3-8H for gcc@gcc.gnu.org; Thu, 23 Jan 2014 11:52:21 +0100 Original-Received: from x2f3b3de.dyn.telefonica.de ([2.243.179.222]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2014 11:52:21 +0100 Original-Received: from dak by x2f3b3de.dyn.telefonica.de with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2014 11:52:21 +0100 Original-Lines: 32 User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) X-IsSubscribed: yes Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.gcc.devel:134118 gmane.emacs.devel:168943 Archived-At: Michael Witten writes: > On Wed, Jan 22, 2014 at 2:33 PM, Jordi Gutiérrez Hermoso wrote: > >> The fact that these non-free tools are not based on gcc are a >> testament to how proprietary software developers cannot plug into gcc, >> and how clang is fostering non-free software. > > What does it matter whether clang fosters non-free software if clang *also* > fosters free software? Indeed, non-free software inspires a lot of free > software, anyway. > > Apparently, gcc isn't fostering much of anything, except for a desire to > replace it with llvm/clang. > > Where there is the least friction, there is the most freedom. And you can save a lot of money on street construction if everybody just drives off-road. Simple solutions for the win. The GNU project did not get where it is by accident. If you take a look at "prisoner's dilemma" tournaments, by far the most successful strategy invariably is "tit for tat" and slight variations. The unmodified strategy will _never_ beat an opponent in any single battle, and it still emerges as the winner in many tournaments. At any rate, if you want to bash the strategies of the GNU project, these lists are the wrong place to go. Try doing it on the Clang list though I am skeptical that they do not have better things to do as well. -- David Kastrup