From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs as WM Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 17:48:47 +0200 Organization: Organization?!? Message-ID: <87vbpoa3a8.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> References: <87vbprtbp1.fsf@gmail.com> <87iolqr05k.wl%andres.ramirez@kipuamutay.com> <83mwb1dfmg.fsf@gnu.org> <87bnrha757.wl%andres.ramirez@kipuamutay.com> <87siktp9x3.fsf@gmail.com> <83egwdci46.fsf@gnu.org> <83d2bwcyu7.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1408463376 6777 80.91.229.3 (19 Aug 2014 15:49:36 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 15:49:36 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Aug 19 17:49:30 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XJlf6-0003W1-0F for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 19 Aug 2014 17:49:28 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:51744 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XJlf5-0001Ic-JQ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 19 Aug 2014 11:49:27 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:44980) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XJlem-0001IO-1p for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 19 Aug 2014 11:49:13 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XJlee-0006fX-K5 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 19 Aug 2014 11:49:07 -0400 Original-Received: from plane.gmane.org ([80.91.229.3]:60180) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XJlee-0006fG-D5 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 19 Aug 2014 11:49:00 -0400 Original-Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XJlec-0003ES-Ch for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 19 Aug 2014 17:48:58 +0200 Original-Received: from x2f4c6e0.dyn.telefonica.de ([2.244.198.224]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Tue, 19 Aug 2014 17:48:58 +0200 Original-Received: from dak by x2f4c6e0.dyn.telefonica.de with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Tue, 19 Aug 2014 17:48:58 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 39 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: x2f4c6e0.dyn.telefonica.de X-Face: 2FEFf>]>q>2iw=B6, xrUubRI>pR&Ml9=ao@P@i)L:\urd*t9M~y1^:+Y]'C0~{mAl`oQuAl \!3KEIp?*w`|bL5qr,H)LFO6Q=qx~iH4DN; i"; /yuIsqbLLCh/!U#X[S~(5eZ41to5f%E@'ELIi$t^ Vc\LWP@J5p^rst0+('>Er0=^1{]M9!p?&:\z]|;&=NP3AhB!B_bi^]Pfkw User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.4.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:lFvKrRwyS3WJ769BBFt1/w8c4PQ= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 80.91.229.3 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:173769 Archived-At: Tom writes: > Eli Zaretskii gnu.org> writes: > >> >> So I think users prefer Office because it has capabilities that Emacs >> doesn't, and not because its "point and click" interface is easier >> than that of Emacs. >> > > On Windows people prefer office also because it looks and behaves as > any other application. So they prefer familiarity too and being > familiar is also a big part of simplicity and ease of use. > > Emacs looks completely alien on Windows and its behavior is also > alien. > > The most obvious example is copy/paste which is Ctrl-C/V on windows > while emacs uses something else. > > There was a discussion about making Ctrl-C/V the default a while > ago, but it was rejected because it goes against emacs standards. > It does, but most users won't relearn basic keys just to use emacs > which has no obvious advantages for them which would be worth it. > > WYSIWYG alone won't gain many new users while emacs stays so > different in other UI points. Emacs will always remain a worse NotePad than NotePad. Most users won't use Emacs even when it tries masking itself as NotePad. Convincingly reinventing Emacs and its keybindings into a world of NotePads is nothing you can solve with enough handwaving. It's sort of like "can't we genetically engineer a womb into horseshoe crabs in order to have them more competitive with mammals?". -- David Kastrup