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From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" <stephen@xemacs.org>
To: Camm Maguire <camm@maguirefamily.org>
Cc: gcl-devel@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: utf8 and emacs text/string multibyte representation
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2014 12:08:33 +0900	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <87vbn22r0u.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87zjcfx985.fsf_-_@maguirefamily.org>

Camm Maguire writes:

 > Greetings!  I've recently been considering supporting unicode in gcl by
 > representing strings internally in utf8.  It appears that emacs does the
 > same or similar.  Apart from the obvious memory footprint benefits,

If you need to *edit* large strings at arbitrary positions with high
performance, the memory footprint benefits are reduced by the need to
cache char position vs. memory position.  If you're on a 64-bit
architecture, those cache entries chew up memory 16 bytes at a time.

I think Emacs does a much better job of handling the position cache
than XEmacs does, so you're asking in the right place.  Just be aware
that it's possible to do it poorly. :-)

 > Yet setting string elements can trigger reallocations/memmove
 > operations.  While these can be aggregated over the setting of
 > multiple elements, operations like nreverse look ridiculous if left
 > in terms of calls to aref and aset.

How many of those operations are there, though?  At worst, nreverse
requires a few bytes of temporary storage to be implemented
efficiently.  If there are only a few of them, just implement them as
primitives.

Note that Python has chosen to use a "just big enough for the data"
fixed-width representation, and AFAIK the Python-licensed code is
GPL-compatible.
http://legacy.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0393/
This strategy has the advantage that manipulating strings internally
is always an array operation, so Python code can be efficient
(enough); you don't need to reimplement such operations as primitives,
and there are no gotchas for user code where the user code looks like
it's operating on an array (efficient) but is actually moving large
chunks of memory around all the time.




  parent reply	other threads:[~2014-10-30  3:08 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 136+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2014-10-28 22:33 Referring to revisions in the git future Alan Mackenzie
2014-10-28 22:54 ` Óscar Fuentes
2014-10-28 23:05   ` Alan Mackenzie
2014-10-28 23:24     ` Óscar Fuentes
2014-10-31 22:47     ` Paul Eggert
2014-10-29  0:49 ` Eric S. Raymond
2014-10-29  3:38   ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2014-10-29 12:26     ` Stefan Monnier
2014-10-29 12:41       ` Alexander Baier
2014-10-29 14:52   ` Barry Warsaw
2014-10-29 15:01     ` David Kastrup
2014-10-29 15:06       ` Eric S. Raymond
2014-10-29 18:12         ` Barry Warsaw
2014-10-29 22:09           ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
2014-10-29 22:29             ` Eric S. Raymond
2014-10-29 23:31               ` Paul Eggert
2014-10-30  0:01                 ` Nic Ferrier
2014-10-30  1:53                 ` Stefan Monnier
2014-10-30  2:10                   ` Eric S. Raymond
2014-10-30  2:13                     ` Paul Eggert
2014-10-30  2:48                       ` Eric S. Raymond
2014-10-30  2:25                     ` Glenn Morris
2014-10-30 10:10                       ` David Kastrup
2014-10-30 13:03                         ` Stefan Monnier
2014-10-30 13:40                           ` David Kastrup
2014-10-30 14:00                             ` Stefan Monnier
2014-10-30 13:02                     ` Stefan Monnier
2014-10-30 15:12                       ` Eric S. Raymond
2014-10-30 16:49                         ` Stefan Monnier
2014-10-30  6:46                 ` Jan Djärv
2014-10-30  7:36                   ` Ivan Shmakov
2014-10-30  8:09                     ` Jan Djärv
2014-10-30  8:31                     ` Eric S. Raymond
2014-10-30  9:53                       ` Andreas Schwab
2014-10-30 10:13                         ` Eric S. Raymond
2014-10-30 10:32                           ` Andreas Schwab
2014-10-30 11:13                             ` Nicolas Richard
2014-10-30 10:12                       ` David Kastrup
2014-10-30 13:29                       ` Stefan Monnier
2014-10-30 15:33                         ` DVCS design philosophy Eric S. Raymond
2014-10-30 16:59                           ` Stefan Monnier
2014-10-30 17:41                             ` Eric S. Raymond
2014-10-31 20:18                         ` Referring to revisions in the git future Nicolas Richard
2014-10-31 21:11                           ` Stefan Monnier
2014-11-01  1:44                             ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2014-11-01  7:58                             ` David Kastrup
2014-10-30 14:20                       ` Barry Warsaw
2014-11-01  1:23                         ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2014-10-30 15:52                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-10-30  3:32           ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2014-10-30  4:35             ` Barry Warsaw
2014-10-30  5:24               ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2014-10-30 10:17               ` David Kastrup
2014-10-30 13:42               ` Alex Bennée
2014-10-30 13:19             ` Stefan Monnier
2014-10-31  6:36               ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2014-10-31 19:42               ` David Kastrup
2014-11-01  1:34                 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2014-11-01  7:05                   ` Tassilo Horn
2014-11-01  7:09                     ` Dima Kogan
2014-11-01  7:28                     ` Paul Eggert
2014-11-01  7:49                     ` David Kastrup
2014-11-01  9:46                       ` Alan Mackenzie
2014-11-01 10:13                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-11-01 11:33                           ` Alan Mackenzie
2014-11-01 13:06                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-11-01 13:21                               ` Alan Mackenzie
2014-11-01 10:29                         ` David Kastrup
2014-11-01 11:29                           ` Alan Mackenzie
2014-11-01 11:57                             ` David Kastrup
2014-11-01 12:29                               ` Alan Mackenzie
2014-11-01 12:47                                 ` Ivan Shmakov
2014-11-01 13:46                                   ` Alan Mackenzie
2014-11-01 18:58                                     ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2014-11-01 12:49                                 ` David Kastrup
2014-10-29  1:11 ` Stefan Monnier
2014-10-29  6:06   ` Werner LEMBERG
2014-10-29  9:01     ` David Kastrup
2014-10-29  8:50 ` David Kastrup
2014-10-29  9:52   ` Eric S. Raymond
2014-10-29 11:00     ` David Kastrup
2014-10-29 14:32       ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-10-29 14:35         ` David Kastrup
2014-10-29 14:55           ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-10-30  4:44             ` Richard Stallman
2014-10-30  8:32               ` Eric S. Raymond
2014-10-30 10:25                 ` David Kastrup
2014-10-30 11:51                   ` Eric S. Raymond
2014-10-30 12:14                     ` David Kastrup
2014-10-30 15:01                       ` Eric S. Raymond
2014-10-30 15:53                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-10-30 15:56                   ` Eric S. Raymond
2014-10-30 16:44                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-10-31  7:47                 ` Richard Stallman
2014-10-31  8:17                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-10-31 10:21                   ` Eric S. Raymond
2014-10-29 12:35     ` Stefan Monnier
2014-10-29 13:00       ` Jose E. Marchesi
2014-10-29 13:59         ` Stefan Monnier
2014-10-29 14:39           ` Eric S. Raymond
2014-10-29 14:46             ` Rasmus
2014-10-29 14:52               ` Eric S. Raymond
2014-10-30  0:58               ` Rob Browning
2014-10-29 15:27             ` Stefan Monnier
2014-10-29 14:04         ` utf8 and emacs text/string multibyte representation Camm Maguire
2014-10-29 14:51           ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-10-29 15:55             ` Camm Maguire
2014-10-29 16:19               ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-10-30 14:13                 ` Camm Maguire
2014-10-30 16:06                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-10-30 16:27                     ` Camm Maguire
2014-10-30 16:35                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-10-31 18:05                         ` Camm Maguire
2014-11-01  9:01                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-11-01 18:32                             ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2014-11-01 18:41                               ` David Kastrup
2014-11-01 19:09                                 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2014-11-02  0:56                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2014-11-01  1:16                         ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2014-10-29 16:45             ` Stefan Monnier
2014-10-29 15:56           ` Raymond Toy
2014-10-30 14:16             ` Camm Maguire
2014-10-31 18:47               ` Sam Steingold
2014-10-31 21:00                 ` Andreas Schwab
2014-10-31 19:52               ` [Gcl-devel] " Stefan Monnier
2014-10-30  3:08           ` Stephen J. Turnbull [this message]
2014-10-29 13:26       ` Referring to revisions in the git future Eric S. Raymond
2014-10-29 14:04         ` Stefan Monnier
2014-10-29 14:49           ` Eric S. Raymond
2014-10-30  2:43           ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2014-10-29 13:08     ` Jan Djärv
2014-10-29 13:27       ` Eric S. Raymond
2014-10-29 13:49         ` Eric S. Raymond
2014-10-29 18:03           ` Jan Djärv
2014-10-29 11:18   ` Alan Mackenzie
2014-10-29 11:37     ` David Kastrup

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