From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Rasmus Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Long file names in Dired Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 12:19:22 +0200 Message-ID: <87vbgl25hx.fsf@gmx.us> References: <87sibq9v12.fsf@debian.uxu> <878udhvr0r.fsf@mbork.pl> <87zj5x28kk.fsf@gmx.us> <87618lvpf5.fsf@mbork.pl> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1429870842 8310 80.91.229.3 (24 Apr 2015 10:20:42 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 10:20:42 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Apr 24 12:20:37 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Ylaio-00034g-Kf for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 24 Apr 2015 12:20:34 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:43976 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Ylaio-0001a6-0s for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 24 Apr 2015 06:20:34 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:52916) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YlaiW-0001a0-4S for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 24 Apr 2015 06:20:17 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YlaiR-00062g-W2 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 24 Apr 2015 06:20:16 -0400 Original-Received: from plane.gmane.org ([80.91.229.3]:50669) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YlaiR-00062W-Ob for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 24 Apr 2015 06:20:11 -0400 Original-Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Ylahz-0002OT-SJ for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 24 Apr 2015 12:19:43 +0200 Original-Received: from tsn109-201-152-241.dyn.nltelcom.net ([109.201.152.241]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 2015 12:19:43 +0200 Original-Received: from rasmus by tsn109-201-152-241.dyn.nltelcom.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 2015 12:19:43 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 104 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: tsn109-201-152-241.dyn.nltelcom.net User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.5 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:22KR2xGdUS3tSi8qe7gsOa4NFbA= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 80.91.229.3 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:103978 Archived-At: Marcin Borkowski writes: >>> I. HATE. BIBTEX. WITH. A. PASSION. >>> [...] >> >> I find the format OK. I can't imagine a vastly superior format for >> metadata... > > 1. Multiple authors are separated with the five-character string > " and ". I type quickly enough for this not to bother me. Perhaps ";" would be better, but for the sake of comparability I can live with " and ". OTOH it may make human parsing more easy when reading the bib file. > Can you imagine a more stupid idea? What if you want to quote > an anonymous report whose author field should say "National Aeronautics > and Space Administration"? Yes, you /can/ quote the " and ", but this > shouldn't be even needed. Author = {{National Aeronautics and Space Administration}} > 2. BibTeX separates the author name into (at most) four components, > called "first", "last", "von" and "jr". No support for: Chinese names > (not fitting into this format)e and names in some other languages (I'm > forgetting now which ones). Another flaw is the auto-guessing of names e.g. for three names one must use "last, first middle" vs "first last" or "last, first" for two names. > 3. What about alphabetic sorting in various languages? This is orthogonal to the format. I believe Biber reads unicode. > 4. Since BibTeX is aimed (after all) at a typesetting system, what about > diferent hyphenation patterns? Imagine an article written in Polish, > citing a paper by a German (so the name should be hyphenated differently > than the rest of the document), the paper being in English, and > published by an Italian university. Where's support for that (i.e., > language field for the author, title etc.)? Biblatex will read language field. I don't know how it uses it. In any case, that's orthogonal to the bibtex format as a "database". > (Not to mention several authors from various langauge backgrounds.) If there's a name you can't type, I guess it's the fault of unicode. > 5. What about all these funny characters not found in English, and in > particular sorting using them? (See the docs for the xindy indexing > tool for examples of nontrivial problems regarding locale-aware > sorting.) This is a flaw with the bibtex program. Biber is better. BTW: Emacs 24 can't do local-aware sorting (but string-collate-lessp is in 25). This would suggest to me that it's a nontrivial problem. > 6. What about custom citation styles? Have you seen the syntax of the > bst files? If yes, you know the pain, and if not, you'd better not look > at them, for your own good... Yes. I used to use custombib or whatever it was called to generate bst files. Pain. Again, this is orthogonal to the bibtex file-format. > 7. BibTeX is not really "case-sensitive" or "case-insensitive", it's > "case-destroying". IOW, /you have to quote capital letters in titles/ > so that BibTeX doesn't convert them to lowercase. I think you can use: {{}}. > BTW, BibLaTeX addresses (AFAIK) problems 3, 5, 6 and 7. Would 3 not be biber? For 4 perhaps you can use the langid field (pp. 24 in the "texdoc biblatex" in TL14). I don't know if it's as extensive as you need. > The amsrefs package addresses problems 1, 2, 4, 6 and 7. I don't know it. The AMS math packages are good quality. > Again: nice, and thanks for the tips. But still, BibTeX is a wrong tool > for that. I'm using the *format*, not the binary "bibtex". Biber is good, and via reftex Emacs has good support for the bibtex format. > Note that no BibTeX based solution helps /if I want to be able to move > files between directories/. In the above system you'd move *folders* rather than files. An entry is a container (folder) of: {metadata, article, notes, data/program} You could have that in a single file (tar), but why bother? —Rasmus -- And when I’m finished thinking, I have to die a lot