From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eric Abrahamsen Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: etc/HELLO: On Chinese and Cantonese Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2020 09:27:29 -0700 Message-ID: <87v9f029hq.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> References: <87mu0e3giu.fsf@posteo.net> <83wnzil7ki.fsf@gnu.org> <831rhpl9bm.fsf@gnu.org> <878sbxdwfj.fsf@tcd.ie> <83blgtji1l.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="39976"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: matthewzmd@posteo.net, rms@gnu.org, ksqsf@mail.ustc.edu.cn, emacs-devel@gnu.org, "Basil L. Contovounesios" , stefankangas@gmail.com To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Oct 23 18:55:33 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kW0Ll-000AJL-Ao for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 23 Oct 2020 18:55:33 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:41012 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kW0Lk-0005na-43 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 23 Oct 2020 12:55:32 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:48210) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kVzul-0003eO-ES for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 23 Oct 2020 12:27:39 -0400 Original-Received: from ericabrahamsen.net ([52.70.2.18]:43336 helo=mail.ericabrahamsen.net) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kVzui-0000zW-94; Fri, 23 Oct 2020 12:27:39 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost (c-73-254-86-141.hsd1.wa.comcast.net [73.254.86.141]) (Authenticated sender: eric@ericabrahamsen.net) by mail.ericabrahamsen.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9D1C3FA0B0; Fri, 23 Oct 2020 16:27:31 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ericabrahamsen.net; s=mail; t=1603470452; bh=hOjTLtvQCO0T/DN9KGkNwSYIy++5dViYvtdBiuR07MA=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=lHCj4g+on1syQqFOfEpPqEPl8hT6/h6ctJq1HWiyJeAfvXicbI1Ko9ZCQiRS71p5j Mj4Cb9Fm9E7t6yQXG2Ov5rmH+JLU2P+vJfUx7LS002DFkU3z6dRn+BLBVeXbLEI8c8 ackzesiuTkyZ+O+wxWlzC3u3kO8NarerCFWw3H1M= In-Reply-To: <83blgtji1l.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 23 Oct 2020 14:30:46 +0300") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=52.70.2.18; envelope-from=eric@ericabrahamsen.net; helo=mail.ericabrahamsen.net X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/10/23 12:27:33 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:258366 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: "Basil L. Contovounesios" >> Cc: eric@ericabrahamsen.net, rms@gnu.org, matthewzmd@posteo.net, >> ksqsf@mail.ustc.edu.cn, stefankangas@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org >> Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2020 12:16:32 +0100 >> >> Eli Zaretskii writes: >> >> > But I'd like to reiterate what I said earlier: I would only remove my >> > objections for changing this part of HELLO if I hear from a >> > representative enough group of native Chinese speakers from both sides >> > of the divide that some change will be acceptable to them, and cause >> > no controversies on either side. With all due respect, people who >> > voiced their opinions in this matter till now cannot be considered >> > such a group. In particular, none of them stated his/her country of >> > origin and current place of living, nor the cultural group to which he >> > or she belongs, which makes judging the opinions harder. >> >> FWIW, I think Eric is also a literary translator of Chinese. > > Thanks, but the aspects that bother me are not of the technical > nature. Obviously the native speakers on the list are the ones to listen to, but I've been speaking Mandarin Chinese since 2001 and lived in Beijing for nearly all that time. And literary translation is very much concerned with political subtleties! But my real creds are my wife who's a native speaker (from Zhejiang) and works in localization, where they have to be super attuned to this sort of thing, and concurs that dividing by script is mostly politically inert. But again, we seem to have plenty of native speakers on the list already.