bug#30043: 25.3; C-M-e inserts euro character

bug#30043: 25.3; C-M-e inserts euro character

[tomasn]

Hello Bug list

On a (the reporting) Windows machine in other editors C-M-e inserts a
Euro character, €. I don't know why, because I can do that with "Alt gr
e". However, this didn't happen in Emacs 24.5.1 on that same machine.
With Emacs as by this report it does insert the Euro character. I don't
know what should be the correct behavior, but do prefer C-M-e to run
the command end-of-defun

In GNU Emacs 25.3.1 (x86_64-w64-mingw32)
  of 2017-09-26 built on LAPHROAIG
Windowing system distributor 'Microsoft Corp.', version 6.1.7601
Configured using:
  'configure --without-dbus --without-compress-install 'CFLAGS=-O2
  -static -g3' PKG_CONFIG_PATH=/mingw64/lib/pkgconfig'

Configured features:
XPM JPEG TIFF GIF PNG RSVG SOUND NOTIFY ACL GNUTLS LIBXML2 ZLIB
TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS

Important settings:
   value of $LANG: SVE
   locale-coding-system: cp1252

Major mode: Dired

Minor modes in effect:
   magit-auto-revert-mode: t
   global-git-commit-mode: t
   diff-auto-refine-mode: t
   async-bytecomp-package-mode: t
   shell-dirtrack-mode: t
   dired-hide-details-mode: t
   show-paren-mode: t
   display-time-mode: t
   ido-vertical-mode: t
   global-hl-line-mode: t
   global-anzu-mode: t
   anzu-mode: t
   which-key-mode: t
   tooltip-mode: t
   global-eldoc-mode: t
   electric-indent-mode: t
   mouse-wheel-mode: t
   file-name-shadow-mode: t
   global-font-lock-mode: t
   font-lock-mode: t
   auto-composition-mode: t
   auto-encryption-mode: t
   auto-compression-mode: t
   buffer-read-only: t
   column-number-mode: t
   line-number-mode: t
   transient-mark-mode: t

Recent messages:
Saving file ...
mouse-2, RET: jump to this character
Saving file ...
Wrote ...
€ is undefined
Quit [5 times]
€ is undefined
scroll-down-command: Beginning of buffer
Mark set
mwheel-scroll: End of buffer [3 times]
mwheel-scroll: Beginning of buffer [6 times]

Load-path shadows:
c:/username/.emacs.d/tomnor-elpa/multiple-cursors.el/multiple-cursors 
hides c:/username/.emacs.d/tomnor-elpa/multiple-cursors
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c:/progs/emacs-25.3_1/share/emacs/25.3/lisp/org/ox
c:/username/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/ox-texinfo hides 
c:/progs/emacs-25.3_1/share/emacs/25.3/lisp/org/ox-texinfo
c:/username/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/ox-publish hides 
c:/progs/emacs-25.3_1/share/emacs/25.3/lisp/org/ox-publish
c:/username/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/ox-org hides 
c:/progs/emacs-25.3_1/share/emacs/25.3/lisp/org/ox-org
c:/username/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/ox-odt hides 
c:/progs/emacs-25.3_1/share/emacs/25.3/lisp/org/ox-odt
c:/username/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/ox-md hides 
c:/progs/emacs-25.3_1/share/emacs/25.3/lisp/org/ox-md
c:/username/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/ox-man hides 
c:/progs/emacs-25.3_1/share/emacs/25.3/lisp/org/ox-man
c:/username/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/ox-latex hides 
c:/progs/emacs-25.3_1/share/emacs/25.3/lisp/org/ox-latex
c:/username/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/ox-icalendar hides 
c:/progs/emacs-25.3_1/share/emacs/25.3/lisp/org/ox-icalendar
c:/username/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/ox-html hides 
c:/progs/emacs-25.3_1/share/emacs/25.3/lisp/org/ox-html
c:/username/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/ox-beamer hides 
c:/progs/emacs-25.3_1/share/emacs/25.3/lisp/org/ox-beamer
c:/username/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/ox-ascii hides 
c:/progs/emacs-25.3_1/share/emacs/25.3/lisp/org/ox-ascii
c:/username/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/org hides 
c:/progs/emacs-25.3_1/share/emacs/25.3/lisp/org/org
c:/username/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/org-w3m hides 
c:/progs/emacs-25.3_1/share/emacs/25.3/lisp/org/org-w3m
c:/username/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/org-version hides 
c:/progs/emacs-25.3_1/share/emacs/25.3/lisp/org/org-version
c:/username/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/org-timer hides 
c:/progs/emacs-25.3_1/share/emacs/25.3/lisp/org/org-timer
c:/username/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/org-table hides 
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c:/username/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/org-src hides 
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c:/username/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/org-rmail hides 
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c:/username/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/org-protocol hides 
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c:/username/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/org-plot hides 
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c:/username/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/org-mouse hides 
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c:/username/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/org-mobile hides 
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c:/username/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/org-mhe hides 
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c:/username/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/org-inlinetask hides 
c:/progs/emacs-25.3_1/share/emacs/25.3/lisp/org/org-inlinetask
c:/username/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/org-info hides 
c:/progs/emacs-25.3_1/share/emacs/25.3/lisp/org/org-info
c:/username/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/org-indent hides 
c:/progs/emacs-25.3_1/share/emacs/25.3/lisp/org/org-indent
c:/username/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/org-id hides 
c:/progs/emacs-25.3_1/share/emacs/25.3/lisp/org/org-id
c:/username/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/org-habit hides 
c:/progs/emacs-25.3_1/share/emacs/25.3/lisp/org/org-habit
c:/username/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/org-gnus hides 
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c:/username/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/org-footnote hides 
c:/progs/emacs-25.3_1/share/emacs/25.3/lisp/org/org-footnote
c:/username/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/org-feed hides 
c:/progs/emacs-25.3_1/share/emacs/25.3/lisp/org/org-feed
c:/username/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/org-faces hides 
c:/progs/emacs-25.3_1/share/emacs/25.3/lisp/org/org-faces
c:/username/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/org-eshell hides 
c:/progs/emacs-25.3_1/share/emacs/25.3/lisp/org/org-eshell
c:/username/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/org-entities hides 
c:/progs/emacs-25.3_1/share/emacs/25.3/lisp/org/org-entities
c:/username/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/org-element hides 
c:/progs/emacs-25.3_1/share/emacs/25.3/lisp/org/org-element
c:/username/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/org-docview hides 
c:/progs/emacs-25.3_1/share/emacs/25.3/lisp/org/org-docview
c:/username/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/org-datetree hides 
c:/progs/emacs-25.3_1/share/emacs/25.3/lisp/org/org-datetree
c:/username/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/org-ctags hides 
c:/progs/emacs-25.3_1/share/emacs/25.3/lisp/org/org-ctags
c:/username/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/org-crypt hides 
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c:/username/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/org-compat hides 
c:/progs/emacs-25.3_1/share/emacs/25.3/lisp/org/org-compat
c:/username/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/org-colview hides 
c:/progs/emacs-25.3_1/share/emacs/25.3/lisp/org/org-colview
c:/username/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/org-clock hides 
c:/progs/emacs-25.3_1/share/emacs/25.3/lisp/org/org-clock
c:/username/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/org-capture hides 
c:/progs/emacs-25.3_1/share/emacs/25.3/lisp/org/org-capture
c:/username/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/org-bibtex hides 
c:/progs/emacs-25.3_1/share/emacs/25.3/lisp/org/org-bibtex
c:/username/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/org-bbdb hides 
c:/progs/emacs-25.3_1/share/emacs/25.3/lisp/org/org-bbdb
c:/username/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/org-attach hides 
c:/progs/emacs-25.3_1/share/emacs/25.3/lisp/org/org-attach
c:/username/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/org-archive hides 
c:/progs/emacs-25.3_1/share/emacs/25.3/lisp/org/org-archive
c:/username/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/org-agenda hides 
c:/progs/emacs-25.3_1/share/emacs/25.3/lisp/org/org-agenda
c:/username/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/ob hides 
c:/progs/emacs-25.3_1/share/emacs/25.3/lisp/org/ob
c:/username/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/ob-tangle hides 
c:/progs/emacs-25.3_1/share/emacs/25.3/lisp/org/ob-tangle
c:/username/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/ob-table hides 
c:/progs/emacs-25.3_1/share/emacs/25.3/lisp/org/ob-table
c:/username/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/ob-sqlite hides 
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c:/username/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/ob-sql hides 
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c:/username/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/ob-shen hides 
c:/progs/emacs-25.3_1/share/emacs/25.3/lisp/org/ob-shen
c:/username/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/ob-screen hides 
c:/progs/emacs-25.3_1/share/emacs/25.3/lisp/org/ob-screen
c:/username/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/ob-scheme hides 
c:/progs/emacs-25.3_1/share/emacs/25.3/lisp/org/ob-scheme
c:/username/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/ob-sass hides 
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c:/username/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/ob-ruby hides 
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c:/username/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/ob-ref hides 
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c:/username/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/ob-R hides 
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c:/username/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/ob-python hides 
c:/progs/emacs-25.3_1/share/emacs/25.3/lisp/org/ob-python
c:/username/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/ob-plantuml hides 
c:/progs/emacs-25.3_1/share/emacs/25.3/lisp/org/ob-plantuml
c:/username/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/ob-picolisp hides 
c:/progs/emacs-25.3_1/share/emacs/25.3/lisp/org/ob-picolisp
c:/username/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/ob-perl hides 
c:/progs/emacs-25.3_1/share/emacs/25.3/lisp/org/ob-perl
c:/username/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/ob-org hides 
c:/progs/emacs-25.3_1/share/emacs/25.3/lisp/org/ob-org
c:/username/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/ob-octave hides 
c:/progs/emacs-25.3_1/share/emacs/25.3/lisp/org/ob-octave
c:/username/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/ob-ocaml hides 
c:/progs/emacs-25.3_1/share/emacs/25.3/lisp/org/ob-ocaml
c:/username/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/ob-mscgen hides 
c:/progs/emacs-25.3_1/share/emacs/25.3/lisp/org/ob-mscgen
c:/username/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/ob-maxima hides 
c:/progs/emacs-25.3_1/share/emacs/25.3/lisp/org/ob-maxima
c:/username/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/ob-matlab hides 
c:/progs/emacs-25.3_1/share/emacs/25.3/lisp/org/ob-matlab
c:/username/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/ob-makefile hides 
c:/progs/emacs-25.3_1/share/emacs/25.3/lisp/org/ob-makefile
c:/username/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/ob-lob hides 
c:/progs/emacs-25.3_1/share/emacs/25.3/lisp/org/ob-lob
c:/username/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/ob-lisp hides 
c:/progs/emacs-25.3_1/share/emacs/25.3/lisp/org/ob-lisp
c:/username/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/ob-lilypond hides 
c:/progs/emacs-25.3_1/share/emacs/25.3/lisp/org/ob-lilypond
c:/username/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/ob-ledger hides 
c:/progs/emacs-25.3_1/share/emacs/25.3/lisp/org/ob-ledger
c:/username/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/ob-latex hides 
c:/progs/emacs-25.3_1/share/emacs/25.3/lisp/org/ob-latex
c:/username/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/ob-keys hides 
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c:/username/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/ob-js hides 
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c:/username/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/ob-gnuplot hides 
c:/progs/emacs-25.3_1/share/emacs/25.3/lisp/org/ob-gnuplot
c:/username/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/ob-fortran hides 
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c:/username/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/ob-exp hides 
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c:/username/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/ob-eval hides 
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c:/username/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/ob-emacs-lisp hides 
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c:/username/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/ob-dot hides 
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c:/username/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/ob-ditaa hides 
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c:/username/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/ob-css hides 
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c:/username/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/ob-core hides 
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c:/username/.emacs.d/elpa/org-20171113/ob-comint hides 
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c:/progs/emacs-25.3_1/share/emacs/25.3/lisp/emacs-lisp/let-alist

Features:
(shadow sort mail-extr emacsbug sendmail org-duration diary-lib
diary-loaddefs cal-iso wdired org-table org-rmail org-mhe org-irc
org-info org-gnus org-docview doc-view jka-compr image-mode org-bibtex
bibtex org-bbdb org-w3m org-agenda bug-reference magit-bookmark
magit-obsolete magit-blame magit-stash magit-bisect magit-remote
magit-commit epa magit-sequence magit-notes magit-worktree magit-branch
magit-collab ghub url-auth url url-proxy url-privacy url-expand
url-methods url-history url-cookie url-domsuf url-util url-parse
url-vars mailcap json map magit-files magit-refs magit-status subr-x
magit esh-var esh-io esh-cmd esh-opt esh-ext esh-proc esh-arg esh-groups
eshell esh-module esh-mode esh-util dired-x magit-repos magit-apply
magit-wip magit-log magit-diff smerge-mode magit-core magit-autorevert
autorevert filenotify magit-process auth-source eieio eieio-core
magit-margin magit-mode derived git-commit recentf tree-widget wid-edit
magit-git magit-section magit-utils vc-git diff-mode crm magit-popup
log-edit message rfc822 mml mml-sec password-cache epg gnus-util
mm-decode mm-bodies mm-encode mail-parse rfc2231 rfc2047 rfc2045
ietf-drums mm-util help-fns mail-prsvr mailabbrev mail-utils gmm-utils
mailheader pcvs-util add-log with-editor async-bytecomp async shell
server dash bookmark pp tomnor two-column iso-transl misearch
multi-isearch dired-aux ace-jump-mode cl dired paredit zerodark-theme
let-alist all-the-icons all-the-icons-faces data-material
data-weathericons data-octicons data-fileicons data-faicons
data-alltheicons memoize font-lock+ paren time view org-element cl-seq
avl-tree org org-macro org-footnote org-pcomplete pcomplete org-list
org-faces org-entities noutline outline org-version ob-emacs-lisp ob
ob-tangle org-src ob-ref ob-lob ob-table ob-keys ob-exp ob-comint
ob-core ob-eval org-compat org-macs org-loaddefs format-spec find-func
cal-menu calendar cal-loaddefs ido-vertical-mode ido hl-line anzu
broadcast-numbers tn-numbers ripgrep grep compile comint ansi-color ring
printing ps-print ps-def lpr finder-inf ace-jump-mode-autoloads info
package epg-config seq byte-opt bytecomp byte-compile cl-extra help-mode
easymenu cconv which-key multiple-cursors mc-hide-unmatched-lines-mode
mc-separate-operations rectangular-region-mode mc-mark-pop mc-mark-more
thingatpt mc-cycle-cursors mc-edit-lines multiple-cursors-core
easy-mmode edmacro kmacro cl-macs gv advice rect cl-loaddefs pcase
cl-lib ispell time-date mule-util tooltip eldoc electric uniquify
ediff-hook vc-hooks lisp-float-type mwheel dos-w32 ls-lisp disp-table
w32-win w32-vars term/common-win tool-bar dnd fontset image regexp-opt
fringe tabulated-list newcomment elisp-mode lisp-mode prog-mode register
page menu-bar rfn-eshadow timer select scroll-bar mouse jit-lock
font-lock syntax facemenu font-core frame cl-generic cham georgian
utf-8-lang misc-lang vietnamese tibetan thai tai-viet lao korean
japanese eucjp-ms cp51932 hebrew greek romanian slovak czech european
ethiopic indian cyrillic chinese charscript case-table epa-hook
jka-cmpr-hook help simple abbrev minibuffer cl-preloaded nadvice
loaddefs button faces cus-face macroexp files text-properties overlay
sha1 md5 base64 format env code-pages mule custom widget
hashtable-print-readable backquote w32notify w32 multi-tty
make-network-process emacs)

Memory information:
((conses 16 642924 88058)
  (symbols 56 45325 0)
  (miscs 48 2514 2259)
  (strings 32 118635 14014)
  (string-bytes 1 3640789)
  (vectors 16 45986)
  (vector-slots 8 1560463 213784)
  (floats 8 981 712)
  (intervals 56 17370 1830)
  (buffers 976 99))

bug#30043: 25.3; C-M-e inserts euro character

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2018 16:11:04 +0100
> From: tomasn@posteo.net
> 
> On a (the reporting) Windows machine in other editors C-M-e inserts a
> Euro character, €. I don't know why, because I can do that with "Alt gr
> e". However, this didn't happen in Emacs 24.5.1 on that same machine.
> With Emacs as by this report it does insert the Euro character.

I cannot reproduce this here, C-M-e in Emacs doesn't insert €.

> I don't know what should be the correct behavior, but do prefer
> C-M-e to run the command end-of-defun

Invoking end-of-defun is the correct behavior, and that's what it does
for me.

bug#30043: 25.3; C-M-e inserts euro character

[Tomas Nordin]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

> I cannot reproduce this here, C-M-e in Emacs doesn't insert €.

Does C-M-e insert € in some other editor for you?

>> I don't know what should be the correct behavior, but do prefer
>> C-M-e to run the command end-of-defun
>
> Invoking end-of-defun is the correct behavior, and that's what it does
> for me.

Tomorrow I will check if num lock has something to do with it, I read
something about that on the web. Still, strange that it happens in 25
but not in 24.

bug#30043: 25.3; C-M-e inserts euro character

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Tomas Nordin <tomasn@posteo.net>
> Cc: 30043@debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2018 22:06:49 +0100
> 
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
> 
> > I cannot reproduce this here, C-M-e in Emacs doesn't insert €.
> 
> Does C-M-e insert € in some other editor for you?

Yes, Word does.  In any case, what other editors do should not be
relevant for Emacs.

> >> I don't know what should be the correct behavior, but do prefer
> >> C-M-e to run the command end-of-defun
> >
> > Invoking end-of-defun is the correct behavior, and that's what it does
> > for me.
> 
> Tomorrow I will check if num lock has something to do with it, I read
> something about that on the web. Still, strange that it happens in 25
> but not in 24.

I have consistently correct behavior in Emacs here.  Do you perhaps
have some optional software or Windows feature installed/activated
that produces the Euro in Emacs?

bug#30043: 25.3; C-M-e inserts euro character

[Tomas Nordin]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

>> From: Tomas Nordin <tomasn@posteo.net>
>> Cc: 30043@debbugs.gnu.org
>> Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2018 22:06:49 +0100
>> 
>> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
>> 
>> > I cannot reproduce this here, C-M-e in Emacs doesn't insert €.
>> 
>> Does C-M-e insert € in some other editor for you?
>
> Yes, Word does.  In any case, what other editors do should not be
> relevant for Emacs.
>
>> >> I don't know what should be the correct behavior, but do prefer
>> >> C-M-e to run the command end-of-defun
>> >
>> > Invoking end-of-defun is the correct behavior, and that's what it does
>> > for me.
>> 
>> Tomorrow I will check if num lock has something to do with it, I read
>> something about that on the web. Still, strange that it happens in 25
>> but not in 24.
>
> I have consistently correct behavior in Emacs here.  Do you perhaps
> have some optional software or Windows feature installed/activated
> that produces the Euro in Emacs?

Not that I know of. Here is some information on the numeric keypad
thing:

./emacs-24.5/bin/runemacs.exe -Q
fundamental mode
Trying C-M-e with num key lit: end-of-defun is run
Trying C-M-e with num key un-lit: end-of-defun is run

./emacs-25.3_1/bin/runemacs.exe -Q
fundamental mode
Trying C-M-e with num key lit: € is inserted
Trying C-M-e with num key un-lit: € is inserted

So it had no impact.

Also, on this keyboard the $ sign is on numeric key 4 and @ character is
on key 2. They get inserted by C-M-4 and C-M-2 respectively in the
Notepad editor for example, (simalar to the C-M-e event). The same is
true on my neighbours computer. Thats news to me, I usually use "alt gr
+ 2" for example to insert @. So one could maybe think that those
key-strokes are in the danger zone as well but in both emacs versions
the effect is

C-M-2 runs the command digit-argument
C-M-4 runs the command digit-argument

no insertion of @ or $.

bug#30043: 25.3; C-M-e inserts euro character

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Tomas Nordin <tomasn@posteo.net>
> Cc: 30043@debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2018 22:49:32 +0100
> 
> ./emacs-24.5/bin/runemacs.exe -Q
> fundamental mode
> Trying C-M-e with num key lit: end-of-defun is run
> Trying C-M-e with num key un-lit: end-of-defun is run
> 
> ./emacs-25.3_1/bin/runemacs.exe -Q
> fundamental mode
> Trying C-M-e with num key lit: € is inserted
> Trying C-M-e with num key un-lit: € is inserted

Does it help to set w32-use-fallback-wm-chars-method to a non -nil
value in Emacs 25.3?

> Also, on this keyboard the $ sign is on numeric key 4 and @ character is
> on key 2. They get inserted by C-M-4 and C-M-2 respectively in the
> Notepad editor for example, (simalar to the C-M-e event). The same is
> true on my neighbours computer. Thats news to me, I usually use "alt gr
> + 2" for example to insert @. So one could maybe think that those
> key-strokes are in the danger zone as well but in both emacs versions
> the effect is
> 
> C-M-2 runs the command digit-argument
> C-M-4 runs the command digit-argument
> 
> no insertion of @ or $.

My keyboard has none of that, so I'm not really sure what's going on.

bug#30043: 25.3; C-M-e inserts euro character

[Tomas Nordin]

> Does it help to set w32-use-fallback-wm-chars-method to a non -nil
> value in Emacs 25.3?

Yes, that removes the problem.

bug#30043: 25.3; C-M-e inserts euro character

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Tomas Nordin <tomasn@posteo.net>
> Cc: 30043@debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2018 23:10:43 +0100
> 
> > Does it help to set w32-use-fallback-wm-chars-method to a non -nil
> > value in Emacs 25.3?
> 
> Yes, that removes the problem.

So I guess you somehow have a keyboard which doesn't fit the new
keyboard input code introduced by Emacs 25, and need to use this
fallback variable to avoid the problem.

bug#30043: 25.3; C-M-e inserts euro character

[Tomas Nordin]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

>> From: Tomas Nordin <tomasn@posteo.net>
>> Cc: 30043@debbugs.gnu.org
>> Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2018 23:10:43 +0100
>> 
>> > Does it help to set w32-use-fallback-wm-chars-method to a non -nil
>> > value in Emacs 25.3?
>> 
>> Yes, that removes the problem.
>
> So I guess you somehow have a keyboard which doesn't fit the new
> keyboard input code introduced by Emacs 25, and need to use this
> fallback variable to avoid the problem.

Does it mean that the new input code has no fault but the keyboard
probably has a problem? The keyboard is basically

https://www.cherry.de/cid/keyboards_STRAIT_BLACK_Corded_Keyboard.htm?cpssessionid=SID-92645709-3B558B4B

but with Swedish layout.

bug#30043: 25.3; C-M-e inserts euro character

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Tomas Nordin <tomasn@posteo.net>
> Cc: 30043@debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2018 20:01:14 +0100
> 
> > So I guess you somehow have a keyboard which doesn't fit the new
> > keyboard input code introduced by Emacs 25, and need to use this
> > fallback variable to avoid the problem.
> 
> Does it mean that the new input code has no fault but the keyboard
> probably has a problem?

I don't think this is a problem, I think this is how your keyboard is
supposed to work.  But since you don't like it, I mentioned the
variable which can be used to get back the old Emacs 24 behavior, if
that's what you want.

bug#30043: 25.3; C-M-e inserts euro character

[Tomas Nordin]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

>> From: Tomas Nordin <tomasn@posteo.net>
>> Cc: 30043@debbugs.gnu.org
>> Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2018 20:01:14 +0100
>> 
>> > So I guess you somehow have a keyboard which doesn't fit the new
>> > keyboard input code introduced by Emacs 25, and need to use this
>> > fallback variable to avoid the problem.
>> 
>> Does it mean that the new input code has no fault but the keyboard
>> probably has a problem?
>
> I don't think this is a problem, I think this is how your keyboard is
> supposed to work.  But since you don't like it, I mentioned the
> variable which can be used to get back the old Emacs 24 behavior, if
> that's what you want.

Yes, I do prefer to be able to call end-of-defun by a familiar
key-binding. If I test this on some other stations with other keyboards
with the same result, will that yield the same recommendation with
setting the fall-back variable?

bug#30043: 25.3; C-M-e inserts euro character

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Tomas Nordin <tomasn@posteo.net>
> Cc: 30043@debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2018 21:22:39 +0100
> 
> > I don't think this is a problem, I think this is how your keyboard is
> > supposed to work.  But since you don't like it, I mentioned the
> > variable which can be used to get back the old Emacs 24 behavior, if
> > that's what you want.
> 
> Yes, I do prefer to be able to call end-of-defun by a familiar
> key-binding. If I test this on some other stations with other keyboards
> with the same result, will that yield the same recommendation with
> setting the fall-back variable?

You should definitely try that variable if you see a similar issue,
especially if the behavior changed since Emacs 24.

bug#30043: 25.3; C-M-e inserts euro character

[Tomas Nordin]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

>> From: Tomas Nordin <tomasn@posteo.net>
>> Cc: 30043@debbugs.gnu.org
>> Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2018 21:22:39 +0100
>> 
>> > I don't think this is a problem, I think this is how your keyboard is
>> > supposed to work.  But since you don't like it, I mentioned the
>> > variable which can be used to get back the old Emacs 24 behavior, if
>> > that's what you want.
>> 
>> Yes, I do prefer to be able to call end-of-defun by a familiar
>> key-binding. If I test this on some other stations with other keyboards
>> with the same result, will that yield the same recommendation with
>> setting the fall-back variable?
>
> You should definitely try that variable if you see a similar issue,
> especially if the behavior changed since Emacs 24.

I checked this on two other stations (with other keyboards) and the
same thing happened, C-M-e inserts a euro character using emacs 25+.
Setting w32-use-fallback-wm-chars-method to t removes the problem also
on those stations.

bug#30043: 25.3; C-M-e inserts euro character

[Tomas Nordin]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

>> From: Tomas Nordin <tomasn@posteo.net>
>> Cc: 30043@debbugs.gnu.org
>> Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2018 20:01:14 +0100
>> 
>> > So I guess you somehow have a keyboard which doesn't fit the new
>> > keyboard input code introduced by Emacs 25, and need to use this
>> > fallback variable to avoid the problem.
>> 
>> Does it mean that the new input code has no fault but the keyboard
>> probably has a problem?
>
> I don't think this is a problem, I think this is how your keyboard is
> supposed to work.  But since you don't like it, I mentioned the

For curiosity I wrote a small python script to collect some keyboard
input at home on Gnu/Linux and at work on Windows

------------------------8<-------------------------------------------
import Tkinter as tk
import time

logfmt = '{:10f}\t{:10}\t{:10}\t{:}'

root = tk.Tk()


def key(event):

    print logfmt.format(time.time() - start_time,
                        repr(event.char),
                        repr(event.keysym),
                        repr(event.keycode))

def callback(event):
    # starts listening here
    frame.focus_set()


frame = tk.Frame(root, width=100, height=100)
frame.bind("<Key>", key)
frame.bind("<Button-1>", callback)
frame.pack()

start_time = time.time()
print '{:10}\t{:10}\t{:10}\t{:}'.format('time', 'char', 'keysym', 'keycode')
root.mainloop()
------------------------>8-------------------------------------------

I tried it by pressing e three times and then ctrl+alt+e and then
e three times again.

Gnu/Linux

time      	char      	keysym    	keycode
  3.201521	'e'       	'e'       	26
  3.497571	'e'       	'e'       	26
  3.713505	'e'       	'e'       	26
  4.329478	''        	'Control_L'	37
  4.473506	''        	'Alt_L'   	64
  4.745468	'\x05'    	'e'       	26
  6.001459	'e'       	'e'       	26
  6.249449	'e'       	'e'       	26
  6.481506	'e'       	'e'       	26

Windows

time      	char      	keysym    	keycode
  2.424000	'e'       	'e'       	69
  2.704000	'e'       	'e'       	69
  2.964000	'e'       	'e'       	69
  3.744000	''        	'Control_L'	17
  3.924000	''        	'Alt_L'   	18
  4.344000	u'\u20ac' 	'e'       	69
  5.866000	'e'       	'e'       	69
  6.147000	'e'       	'e'       	69
  6.347000	'e'       	'e'       	69

I don't know if it adds anything to the discussion, but anyway. Much are
different on the platforms, the only thing in common seem to be the
key symbol in this case, and the char sometimes. The same pattern was
repeated on three Windows stations with different keyboards.

bug#30043: 25.3; C-M-e inserts euro character

[Stefan Kangas]

tags 30043 + notabug
close 30043
quit

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

>> From: Tomas Nordin <tomasn@posteo.net>
>> Cc: 30043@debbugs.gnu.org
>> Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2018 23:10:43 +0100
>>
>> > Does it help to set w32-use-fallback-wm-chars-method to a non -nil
>> > value in Emacs 25.3?
>>
>> Yes, that removes the problem.
>
> So I guess you somehow have a keyboard which doesn't fit the new
> keyboard input code introduced by Emacs 25, and need to use this
> fallback variable to avoid the problem.

I believe that was the correct answer, and nothing of the rest of the
discussion indicated otherwise.  I'm therefore closing this as notabug.

If anyone disagrees, feel free to reopen.

Best regards,
Stefan Kangas

bug#30043: 25.3; C-M-e inserts euro character

[Tomas Nordin]

Stefan Kangas <stefan@marxist.se> writes:

> tags 30043 + notabug
> close 30043
> quit
>
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
>
>>> From: Tomas Nordin <tomasn@posteo.net>
>>> Cc: 30043@debbugs.gnu.org
>>> Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2018 23:10:43 +0100
>>>
>>> > Does it help to set w32-use-fallback-wm-chars-method to a non -nil
>>> > value in Emacs 25.3?
>>>
>>> Yes, that removes the problem.
>>
>> So I guess you somehow have a keyboard which doesn't fit the new
>> keyboard input code introduced by Emacs 25, and need to use this
>> fallback variable to avoid the problem.
>
> I believe that was the correct answer, and nothing of the rest of the
> discussion indicated otherwise.  I'm therefore closing this as notabug.

It seems to me then that the correct answer is that keyboards with
swedish layout on Windows does not fit the new keyboard input code. I
see the same on a laptop now with emacs 26.2. It is strange that no-one
else in this country complains.

Using the work-around with setting w32-use-fallback-wm-chars-method
solves the problem. But the docstring of that variable suggests that I
shouldn't have to use it unless debugging something.

I am not going to argue with the closing but I don't think this is
specific to one specific keyboard. It was reproduced on several
keyboards on different machines.

Thanks
--
Tomas

bug#30043: 25.3; C-M-e inserts euro character

[Stefan Kangas]

tags 30043 - notabug
reopen 30043
thanks

Tomas Nordin <tomasn@posteo.net> writes:

> >> So I guess you somehow have a keyboard which doesn't fit the new
> >> keyboard input code introduced by Emacs 25, and need to use this
> >> fallback variable to avoid the problem.
> >
> > I believe that was the correct answer, and nothing of the rest of the
> > discussion indicated otherwise.  I'm therefore closing this as notabug.
>
> It seems to me then that the correct answer is that keyboards with
> swedish layout on Windows does not fit the new keyboard input code. I
> see the same on a laptop now with emacs 26.2. It is strange that no-one
> else in this country complains.
>
> Using the work-around with setting w32-use-fallback-wm-chars-method
> solves the problem. But the docstring of that variable suggests that I
> shouldn't have to use it unless debugging something.
>
> I am not going to argue with the closing but I don't think this is
> specific to one specific keyboard. It was reproduced on several
> keyboards on different machines.

Hi Tomas,

Thanks for writing back.  It was not my intention to close a
legitimate bug; reopened it now.  I've been investigating this a bit,
and it seems like this new keyboard handling code was introduced due
to deficiencies in the old one.  See:
https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=19994
See also the possibly related: https://debbugs.gnu.org/bug=23251

If it's the case that this change breaks M-C-e on all Swedish
keyboards on MS-Windows, perhaps it's worth making sure the users
doesn't have to set w32-use-fallback-wm-chars-method to non-nil.  At
the very least, it makes sense to me that the doc string should be
improved as Tomas suggests, and possibly also that the workaround
should be documented in e.g. etc/PROBLEMS.

Eli, what do you think?  I've also Cc:ed Ilya Zakharevich in the hope
that he will be able to help.

Also: is anyone else seeing this on their Swedish keyboard on
MS-Windows?  And Tomas: Are you seeing the same thing with other key
bindings involving one or more modifiers?

I have a Swedish keyboard but no MS-Windows system, so I can't dig
into this beyond this.  I'm also a bit out of my depth.  Therefore,
I'll have to leave it to someone else to decide how to best proceed
here.

Best regards,
Stefan Kangas

bug#30043: 25.3; C-M-e inserts euro character

[Stefan Kangas]

> https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=19994
> See also the possibly related: https://debbugs.gnu.org/bug=23251

Sorry, that should be:
https://debbugs.gnu.org/19994 and
https://debbugs.gnu.org/23251

> Eli, what do you think?  I've also Cc:ed Ilya Zakharevich in the hope
> that he will be able to help.

The email to Ilya Zakharevich bounced, unfortunately, with:
550 5.1.1 The email account that you tried to reach does not exist.

Best regards,
Stefan Kangas

bug#30043: 25.3; C-M-e inserts euro character

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Stefan Kangas <stefan@marxist.se>
> Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2019 17:42:59 +0200
> Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>, 30043@debbugs.gnu.org, 
> 	Ilya Zakharevich <ilya@math.berkeley.edu>
> 
> Thanks for writing back.  It was not my intention to close a
> legitimate bug; reopened it now.  I've been investigating this a bit,
> and it seems like this new keyboard handling code was introduced due
> to deficiencies in the old one.  See:
> https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=19994
> See also the possibly related: https://debbugs.gnu.org/bug=23251

Of course, we made that change to make keyboard input better on
MS-Windows.  And it _is_ better now than it was before.

> If it's the case that this change breaks M-C-e on all Swedish
> keyboards on MS-Windows

I don't think this is the case.  C-M-e does in Emacs exactly what it
should do, it just doesn't do what it does in other applications,
i.e. insert the Euro symbol.  But why should C-M-e do that in Sweden,
when it doesn't do that in other locales?  It sounds like Emacs
behaves consistently here.

> At the very least, it makes sense to me that the doc string should
> be improved as Tomas suggests, and possibly also that the workaround
> should be documented in e.g. etc/PROBLEMS.

I have nothing against mentioning this quirk in PROBLEMS, of course.
Although I don't really agree this is a "problem".

> Eli, what do you think?  I've also Cc:ed Ilya Zakharevich in the hope
> that he will be able to help.

If Ilya can look into this and explain what's going on, it would be
great, of course.

bug#30043: 25.3; C-M-e inserts euro character

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2019 18:52:25 +0300
> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
> Cc: tomasn@posteo.net, 30043@debbugs.gnu.org, ilya@math.berkeley.edu
> 
> > If it's the case that this change breaks M-C-e on all Swedish
> > keyboards on MS-Windows
> 
> I don't think this is the case.  C-M-e does in Emacs exactly what it
> should do, it just doesn't do what it does in other applications,
> i.e. insert the Euro symbol.  But why should C-M-e do that in Sweden,
> when it doesn't do that in other locales?  It sounds like Emacs
> behaves consistently here.

Btw, the reason could be as simple as this: other applications
react to AltGr+e and C-M-e the same (because AltGr is sometimes
equivalent to Alt+Ctrl pressed together), whereas Emacs distinguishes
them, which was part of the reason for the changes we made in Emacs
25.  IOW, this is a feature.

bug#30043: 25.3; C-M-e inserts euro character

[Stefan Kangas]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

> > If it's the case that this change breaks M-C-e on all Swedish
> > keyboards on MS-Windows
>
> I don't think this is the case.  C-M-e does in Emacs exactly what it
> should do, it just doesn't do what it does in other applications,
> i.e. insert the Euro symbol.  But why should C-M-e do that in Sweden,
> when it doesn't do that in other locales?  It sounds like Emacs
> behaves consistently here.

I believe the problem here is that C-M-e inserts an Euro symbol, and
the reporter wants it to run end-of-defun instead.

Best regards,
Stefan Kangas

bug#30043: 25.3; C-M-e inserts euro character

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2019 19:00:38 +0300
> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
> Cc: tomasn@posteo.net, 30043@debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> Btw, the reason could be as simple as this: other applications
> react to AltGr+e and C-M-e the same (because AltGr is sometimes
> equivalent to Alt+Ctrl pressed together), whereas Emacs distinguishes
> them

Hmm... I see it's the other way around: C-M-e produces for the OP the
same Euro as AltGr+e.

So I still stand by my suggestion to use that variable.

bug#30043: 25.3; C-M-e inserts euro character

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2019 19:08:53 +0300
> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
> Cc: tomasn@posteo.net, 30043@debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> So I still stand by my suggestion to use that variable.

An alternative would be to install a different keyboard: not all of
them produce the Euro symbol for AltGr+E.

bug#30043: 25.3; C-M-e inserts euro character

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2019 19:19:00 +0300
> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
> Cc: tomasn@posteo.net, 30043@debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> An alternative would be to install a different keyboard: not all of
> them produce the Euro symbol for AltGr+E.

See also this page:

  https://www.thewindowsclub.com/how-do-i-enable-or-disable-alt-gr-key-on-windows-10-keyboard

bug#30043: 25.3; C-M-e inserts euro character

[Tomas Nordin]

Stefan Kangas <stefan@marxist.se> writes:

> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
>
>> > If it's the case that this change breaks M-C-e on all Swedish
>> > keyboards on MS-Windows
>>
>> I don't think this is the case.  C-M-e does in Emacs exactly what it
>> should do, it just doesn't do what it does in other applications,
>> i.e. insert the Euro symbol.  But why should C-M-e do that in Sweden,
>> when it doesn't do that in other locales?  It sounds like Emacs
>> behaves consistently here.
>
> I believe the problem here is that C-M-e inserts an Euro symbol, and
> the reporter wants it to run end-of-defun instead.

This is to the point correct and that was the case until emacs 25.
Others with Swedish keyboards on Windows should confirm or disconfirm
this strange behavior. Who knows, maybe there is something strange going
on on all Windows installations at my work place.

bug#30043: 25.3; C-M-e inserts euro character

[Tomas Nordin]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

>> Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2019 19:19:00 +0300
>> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
>> Cc: tomasn@posteo.net, 30043@debbugs.gnu.org
>> 
>> An alternative would be to install a different keyboard: not all of
>> them produce the Euro symbol for AltGr+E.
>
> See also this page:
>
>   https://www.thewindowsclub.com/how-do-i-enable-or-disable-alt-gr-key-on-windows-10-keyboard

I had a look at that. I didn't find a way to disable the feature to
mimic AltGr by pressing Ctrl-Alt, which I guess is what I should want.

In other words, it seems that by emacs 25 I need windows not to mimic
AltGr when I hit Ctrl-Alt.

Best regards
--
Tomas

bug#30043: 25.3; C-M-e inserts euro character

[Tomas Nordin]

Tomas Nordin <tomasn@posteo.net> writes:

> this strange behavior. Who knows, maybe there is something strange
> going on on all Windows installations at my work place.

I have now found one more person in this country (Sweden) who use emacs
on MS-Windows, outside my organisation, who complains about the same
thing. C-M-e inserts a euro character. Actually he didn't complain, but
I managed to get him to try this out and he confirmed the effect. Maybe
for the sake of this bug report we can pretend that he complained. His
version of emacs was

        GNU Emacs 26.2 (build 1, x86_64-w64-mingw32) of 2019-04-13

Best regards
--
Tomas

bug#30043: 25.3; C-M-e inserts euro character

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Tomas Nordin <tomasn@posteo.net>
> Cc: 30043@debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2019 12:00:40 +0200
> 
> Tomas Nordin <tomasn@posteo.net> writes:
> 
> > this strange behavior. Who knows, maybe there is something strange
> > going on on all Windows installations at my work place.
> 
> I have now found one more person in this country (Sweden) who use emacs
> on MS-Windows, outside my organisation, who complains about the same
> thing. C-M-e inserts a euro character. Actually he didn't complain, but
> I managed to get him to try this out and he confirmed the effect. Maybe
> for the sake of this bug report we can pretend that he complained. His
> version of emacs was
> 
>         GNU Emacs 26.2 (build 1, x86_64-w64-mingw32) of 2019-04-13

Can you try setting w32-recognize-altgr to a nil value?

bug#30043: 25.3; C-M-e inserts euro character

[Tomas Nordin]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

>> From: Tomas Nordin <tomasn@posteo.net>
>> Cc: 30043@debbugs.gnu.org
>> Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2019 12:00:40 +0200
>> 
>> Tomas Nordin <tomasn@posteo.net> writes:
>> 
>> > this strange behavior. Who knows, maybe there is something strange
>> > going on on all Windows installations at my work place.
>> 
>> I have now found one more person in this country (Sweden) who use emacs
>> on MS-Windows, outside my organisation, who complains about the same
>> thing. C-M-e inserts a euro character. Actually he didn't complain, but
>> I managed to get him to try this out and he confirmed the effect. Maybe
>> for the sake of this bug report we can pretend that he complained. His
>> version of emacs was
>> 
>>         GNU Emacs 26.2 (build 1, x86_64-w64-mingw32) of 2019-04-13
>
> Can you try setting w32-recognize-altgr to a nil value?

Here is a test session including w32-recognize-altgr

emacs -Q

w32-recognize-altgr ;; -> t
w32-use-fallback-wm-chars-method ;; -> nil

C-h c on the following key combinations and its message

Alt left-ctrl e -> € runs the command self-insert-command
AltGr left-ctrl e -> € runs the command self-insert-command
AltGr e -> € runs the command self-insert-command

(setq w32-recognize-altgr nil)

Alt left-ctrl e -> € runs the command self-insert-command
AltGr left-ctrl e -> € runs the command self-insert-command
AltGr e -> € runs the command self-insert-command

(setq w32-use-fallback-wm-chars-method t)

Alt left-ctrl e -> C-M-e runs the command end-of-defun
AltGr left-ctrl e -> C-M-e runs the command end-of-defun
AltGr e -> C-M-e runs the command end-of-defun

(setq w32-recognize-altgr t)

Alt left-ctrl e -> C-M-e runs the command end-of-defun
AltGr left-ctrl e -> € runs the command self-insert-command
AltGr e -> € runs the command self-insert-command


It seems that only nilling w32-recognize-altgr does not do it. Combining
w32-use-fallback-wm-chars-method as t and w32-recognize-altgr as nil
disables the AltGr functionality.

Best regards
--
Tomas

bug#30043: 25.3; C-M-e inserts euro character

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Tomas Nordin <tomasn@posteo.net>
> Cc: stefan@marxist.se, 30043@debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2019 21:07:31 +0200
> 
> It seems that only nilling w32-recognize-altgr does not do it. Combining
> w32-use-fallback-wm-chars-method as t and w32-recognize-altgr as nil
> disables the AltGr functionality.

Thanks for testing.  This is all the wisdom I can offer.  The only way
other than what I said to fix this is to configure your Windows system
to use a different keyboard layout, or use the MS Keyboard Layout
Editor to make your own.

Maybe someone else will know more (but I doubt that, given what the
Internet search about this brings up).

bug#30043: 25.3; C-M-e inserts euro character

[Lars Ingebrigtsen]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

> Thanks for testing.  This is all the wisdom I can offer.  The only way
> other than what I said to fix this is to configure your Windows system
> to use a different keyboard layout, or use the MS Keyboard Layout
> Editor to make your own.

(I'm going through old bug reports that unfortunately weren't resolved
at the time.)

It seems the conclusion here was that we can't do much here to improve
the default situation, and there use user options available for those
affected that fixes the problem, so I'm closing this bug report.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no