From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Emanuel Berg Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Spaces rather than tabs by a major mode hook Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2022 08:24:27 +0200 Message-ID: <87v8t5krms.fsf@dataswamp.org> References: <83h74rxze0.fsf@gnu.org> <83bkuzxvur.fsf@gnu.org> <878rq2gyoc.fsf@yahoo.com> <87v8t6fj7i.fsf@yahoo.com> <837d5mwda0.fsf@gnu.org> <871qvt2rjo.fsf@dataswamp.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="32791"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Cancel-Lock: sha1:vwmwW2/Bjk5HMmibTy3a8VggIos= Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Jun 13 08:39:05 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1o0dj6-0008IY-Pj for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 13 Jun 2022 08:39:04 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:41002 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o0dj5-0007Js-Oe for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 13 Jun 2022 02:39:03 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:36394) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o0dV8-0006ia-Ja for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 13 Jun 2022 02:24:38 -0400 Original-Received: from ciao.gmane.io ([116.202.254.214]:36202) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o0dV6-0006Fy-D8 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 13 Jun 2022 02:24:38 -0400 Original-Received: from list by ciao.gmane.io with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1o0dV4-0000Tk-43 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 13 Jun 2022 08:24:34 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Mail-Followup-To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Mail-Copies-To: never Received-SPF: pass client-ip=116.202.254.214; envelope-from=geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; helo=ciao.gmane.io X-Spam_score_int: -16 X-Spam_score: -1.7 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.7 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:137771 Archived-At: Jean Louis wrote: > I can think that sources from past may have its cultural > significance. Reformatting such sources may rather be > destructive for the full understanding of the > programming roots. > > Other fact is that various editors simply do not indent same > way the same language or markup, as there are too many > different subjective assumptions and attempts to impose > these or those rules. > > Frustration as result is understandable. > > I cannot find anything about indentation in Emacs GUI menu. > But I can find indentation settings in editor such as Leo > (most similar to Emacs), Mousepad, or Notepadqq or Gvim. > In Emacs "Options Menu" it appears there is more importance > if cursor is to blink or not and if tool bar, tab bar and > menu bar are shown or not shown, while many other useful > user options are not there. > > And Emacs users will stick to their habits and will say, > well, if you wish to customize anything use setq or > customize options. However, it may reject users or create > esoteric impressions, that Emacs is not for everybody, but > rather for advanced users. > > As a quick test, when I imagine I am Notepadqq user and now > coming to Emacs, I was used as Notepadqq user to easily find > option under Edit -> Indentation -> where I could choose > Smart Indentation, Custom or Default Settings. I do not say > it is better than what... (Emacs), I just give it as > example. Then I open up Emacs and then I cannot find > anything about indentation. If I go to top level group and > write "indent" I get bunch of words I am not used to, like > "Latex Indent Comment Start Regexp" and "Bibtex Contline > Indentation" and so on, there is no way I can understand > easily on the 74th line what is "Electric Indent Mode" just > by looking into customization option. In fact if I click on > "More" which implies the meaning to be "more information", > I am faced with this happy greeting: > > See the ‘electric-indent-mode’ command for a description > of this minor mode. Setting this variable directly does > not take effect; either customize it (see the info node > ‘Easy Customization’) or call the function > ‘electric-indent-mode’. > > So, tell me, how am I supposed as user to get some > indentation settings without going through bushes of torns > until I come to full understanding what is going on? How will an unenlightened person reach a state of enlightenment? I have to give it to you here, Jean, I don't know! > By the way, when I click "More" the function > `electric-indent-mode' on that place is not linked to > anything, I cannot just click on it to understand it, and > what follows is that me as a user of Notepadqq, Gvim, or > Mousepad editor on GNU/Linux, I simply cannot find a common > option, I cannot find it, even though I used customization > search feature, I wrote "indent" and I got bunch of > nonsense, no real guidance, I cannot possibly do it, neither > I can understand "how to see `electric-indent-mode' command > for a description of this minor mode". > > The above small analysis is there to demonstrate differences > to editors and difficulties. If only you could be passionate about it! -- underground experts united https://dataswamp.org/~incal