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From: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@posteo.net>
To: Nick Dokos <ndokos@gmail.com>
Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
Subject: Re: [POLL] Should we accept breaking changes to get rid of Org libraries that perform side effects when loading?
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2023 07:36:17 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <87v8dmt4i6.fsf@localhost> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87leeiy8wl.fsf@alphaville.usersys.redhat.com>

Nick Dokos <ndokos@gmail.com> writes:

> I would also recommend that the library *not* call its enable function
> in general and leave it to the user to do so explicitly, but that may
> be more controversial for "backward compatibility" reasons (with which
> I disagree in these particular cases: I view them as bugs that need to
> be fixed).

I think that we all agree on this point.
The main question is where to draw a line between intrusive and
non-intrusive side effects.

For example, before loading ob-emacs-lisp

#+begin_src elisp
 (+ 1 1)
#+end_src

will not be syntax-highlighted, while after loading it will.
Is it intrusive? Somewhat. But maybe not bad enough to justify enable
function.

Similarly, loading ob-lilypond will alter how file containing lilypond
fragments is tangled.

Or loading ox-foo.el may alter export menu.

We have plenty of examples with varying degrees of side effects in Org.
And it is not fully clear to me which side effects are worth eliminating
and which are not.

Yet another option could be forcing certain side effects even without
loading. For example,
  (add-to-list 'org-babel-tangle-lang-exts '("LilyPond" . "ly"))
that sets up tangling of lilypond fragments can be changed to

;;;#autoload
(add-to-list 'org-babel-tangle-lang-exts '("LilyPond" . "ly"))

That way, we will consistently get the same tangle configuration even
before ob-lilypond is loaded.

-- 
Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
Org mode contributor,
Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>.
Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>,
or support my work at <https://liberapay.com/yantar92>


  reply	other threads:[~2023-08-11  7:36 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 112+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2023-03-21  3:36 org-ctags land grab Nick Dokos
2023-03-21 16:40 ` Rudolf Adamkovič
2023-03-22 12:03 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-03-23  5:14   ` Nick Dokos
2023-03-23 10:49     ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-03-23 14:50       ` Max Nikulin
2023-03-25 17:45         ` [POLL] Should we accept breaking changes to get rid of Org libraries that perform side effects when loading? (was: org-ctags land grab) Ihor Radchenko
2023-03-27 15:14           ` [POLL] Should we accept breaking changes to get rid of Org libraries that perform side effects when loading? Max Nikulin
2023-03-28 10:02             ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-03-27 16:10           ` [POLL] Should we accept breaking changes to get rid of Org libraries that perform side effects when loading? (was: org-ctags land grab) Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2023-03-28  9:55             ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-08  4:19           ` [POLL] Should we accept breaking changes to get rid of Org libraries that perform side effects when loading? Bastien Guerry
2023-08-08  8:48             ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-08 13:29               ` Bastien Guerry
2023-08-09  7:48                 ` Max Nikulin
2023-08-10 19:50                   ` Nick Dokos
2023-08-11  7:36                     ` Ihor Radchenko [this message]
2023-08-11  9:44                 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-12 12:46                   ` Bastien Guerry
2023-08-12 22:18                     ` Samuel Wales
2023-08-13  8:59                       ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-14  0:57                         ` Samuel Wales
2023-08-14 10:34                           ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-14 13:19                       ` Fraga, Eric
2023-08-22 15:15                         ` Bastien Guerry
2023-08-23  9:33                           ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-24 11:39                             ` Bastien Guerry
2023-08-24 11:44                               ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-24 12:08                                 ` Bastien Guerry
2023-08-24 12:15                                   ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-24 12:36                                     ` Bastien Guerry
2023-08-24 12:40                                       ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-24 12:48                                         ` Bastien Guerry
2023-08-24 12:56                                           ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-24 13:01                                             ` Russell Adams
2023-08-24 13:33                                               ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-24 13:41                                                 ` Russell Adams
2023-08-24 13:47                                                   ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-24 13:02                                             ` Bastien Guerry
2023-08-24 13:36                                               ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-24 13:43                                                 ` Russell Adams
2023-08-25  9:16                                                   ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-24 14:08                                                 ` Bastien Guerry
2023-08-25  2:59                                                   ` spookygostee
2023-08-25  9:53                                                     ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-25  9:44                                                   ` [DISCUSSION] Re-design of inlinetasks (was: [POLL] Should we accept breaking changes to get rid of Org libraries that perform side effects when loading?) Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-25 17:58                                                     ` [DISCUSSION] Re-design of inlinetasks Juan Manuel Macías
2023-08-26 10:58                                                       ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-26 11:42                                                         ` Juan Manuel Macías
2023-08-26 12:33                                                           ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-26 14:21                                                             ` Juan Manuel Macías
2023-08-26 16:33                                                               ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-26 17:31                                                                 ` Juan Manuel Macías
2023-08-26 17:43                                                                   ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-26 19:19                                                                     ` Juan Manuel Macías
2023-08-27  9:21                                                                       ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-27 17:25                                                                         ` Juan Manuel Macías
2023-08-31  9:15                                                                           ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-26 18:01                                                                   ` Russell Adams
2023-08-29 13:00                                                                     ` Russell Adams
2023-08-30 11:49                                                                       ` Alain.Cochard
2023-08-30 12:36                                                                         ` Russell Adams
2023-08-30 14:06                                                                           ` Alain.Cochard
2023-08-30 14:31                                                                             ` Russell Adams
2023-08-30 14:39                                                                               ` Alain.Cochard
2023-08-30 15:08                                                                                 ` Russell Adams
2023-08-30 15:13                                                                                   ` Russell Adams
2023-08-30 18:32                                                                                     ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-24 12:53                                         ` [POLL] Should we accept breaking changes to get rid of Org libraries that perform side effects when loading? Russell Adams
2023-08-24 13:04                                           ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-24 13:11                                             ` Russell Adams
2023-08-24 13:41                                               ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-24 13:49                                                 ` Russell Adams
2023-08-25  9:18                                                   ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-24 14:20                                                 ` Russell Adams
2023-08-24 13:23                                       ` tomas
2023-08-24 13:29                                         ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-24 13:36                                           ` Russell Adams
2023-08-24 13:44                                             ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-24 14:00                                               ` Russell Adams
2023-08-25  2:48                                                 ` spookygostee
2023-08-25  9:52                                                 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-24 13:50                                           ` tomas
2023-08-25  9:49                                             ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-24 12:11                                 ` Russell Adams
2023-08-24 12:21                                   ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-24 14:43                                     ` Max Nikulin
2023-08-24 23:07                                       ` Samuel Wales
2023-08-24 23:23                                         ` Samuel Wales
2023-08-24 23:24                                           ` Samuel Wales
2023-08-25  9:56                                             ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-25  9:56                                         ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-26  8:59                             ` Fraga, Eric
2023-08-26 12:30                               ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-27 13:16                                 ` Fraga, Eric
2023-08-22 15:40                         ` Russell Adams
2023-08-13  8:53                     ` [DISCUSSION] The future of org-mouse.el and org-inlinetask.el (was: [POLL] Should we accept breaking changes to get rid of Org libraries that perform side effects when loading?) Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-13  9:33                       ` [DISCUSSION] The future of org-mouse.el and org-inlinetask.el Bastien Guerry
2023-08-13 10:29                         ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-14  7:48                     ` [POLL] Should we accept breaking changes to get rid of Org libraries that perform side effects when loading? Tom Gillespie
2023-08-15 14:10                     ` Timothy
2023-08-15 14:38                       ` Russell Adams
2023-08-15 15:21                         ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-15 18:58                           ` Tom Gillespie
2023-08-16 10:24                             ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-09 22:30               ` Or probably just fix the org-ctags hook functions? (was: Should we accept breaking changes ...) Jens Schmidt
2023-08-10 19:56                 ` Or probably just fix the org-ctags hook functions? Nick Dokos
2023-08-11  7:37                   ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-11 17:01                     ` Nick Dokos
2023-08-11 21:40                       ` Jens Schmidt
2023-08-11 21:48                         ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-11 22:43                           ` Jens Schmidt

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