From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Philip Kaludercic Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [NonGNU ELPA] New package: llm Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2023 13:11:14 +0000 Message-ID: <87v8d0iqa5.fsf@posteo.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="15222"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Andrew Hyatt Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Aug 27 15:11:44 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qaFYN-0003pw-QU for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 27 Aug 2023 15:11:43 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qaFY2-00030U-NW; Sun, 27 Aug 2023 09:11:22 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qaFY1-000304-3E for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 27 Aug 2023 09:11:21 -0400 Original-Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qaFXx-0008RM-Ow for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 27 Aug 2023 09:11:20 -0400 Original-Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7B421240028 for ; Sun, 27 Aug 2023 15:11:15 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1693141875; bh=yqIrPqVMkDjKJ4ym5fdKV9EbsvyNuZ1z4s/V0X0O3LQ=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Autocrypt:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version: Content-Transfer-Encoding:From; b=UDBntTTo1yEReIYJ+UDdldX76Q2cCetxft8kBsjpVnTb8SIlaq+ZGN1jdKwhzcHeQ /08crWTqK5rJAnM+bOVvmC/vQyiJEtvqFrhllGBnc3/LlVzevQfjer1uB9EEyynxvS 5als//O14V1BVH3nbUQnMrgl/QEZ4unZ+X2KcWF1aBY6hmIVmol3jFZdG3OOf/f7Gz n06EUrKd6RZedfu8bS7jFZuyAjN8pfHpYtd9Wdl57cp/vKRbKV5574N6WUz4faEq40 HH/QOFPcIjYyFlV6WU0yYjZGvtHs/VnVQ/3dFbVkjuVaO/ax4zdosZ0SOTIdaE+Fm2 FAIcol4hCKqtQ== Original-Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4RYYwg0LT0z6v6M; Sun, 27 Aug 2023 15:11:15 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: (Andrew Hyatt's message of "Sat, 26 Aug 2023 21:07:33 -0400") Autocrypt: addr=philipk@posteo.net; keydata= mDMEZBBQQhYJKwYBBAHaRw8BAQdAHJuofBrfqFh12uQu0Yi7mrl525F28eTmwUDflFNmdui0QlBo aWxpcCBLYWx1ZGVyY2ljIChnZW5lcmF0ZWQgYnkgYXV0b2NyeXB0LmVsKSA8cGhpbGlwa0Bwb3N0 ZW8ubmV0PoiWBBMWCAA+FiEEDg7HY17ghYlni8XN8xYDWXahwukFAmQQUEICGwMFCQHhM4AFCwkI BwIGFQoJCAsCBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQ8xYDWXahwulikAEA77hloUiSrXgFkUVJhlKBpLCHUjA0 mWZ9j9w5d08+jVwBAK6c4iGP7j+/PhbkxaEKa4V3MzIl7zJkcNNjHCXmvFcEuDgEZBBQQhIKKwYB BAGXVQEFAQEHQI5NLiLRjZy3OfSt1dhCmFyn+fN/QKELUYQetiaoe+MMAwEIB4h+BBgWCAAmFiEE Dg7HY17ghYlni8XN8xYDWXahwukFAmQQUEICGwwFCQHhM4AACgkQ8xYDWXahwukm+wEA8cml4JpK NeAu65rg+auKrPOP6TP/4YWRCTIvuYDm0joBALw98AMz7/qMHvSCeU/hw9PL6u6R2EScxtpKnWof z4oM Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.65; envelope-from=philipk@posteo.net; helo=mout01.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -53 X-Spam_score: -5.4 X-Spam_bar: ----- X-Spam_report: (-5.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=-1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:309331 Archived-At: Andrew Hyatt writes: > I've now made the changes requested to the llm package on github ( > https://github.com/ahyatt/llm). > > Because what was requested was a warning to the user, I used `lwarn', and > have added an option to turn the warnings off (and the user can turn the > warnings off through the warning mechanism as well, via > `warning-suppress-log-types'). > > To save you the trouble of looking at the code to see what exactly it say= s, > here's the function I'm using to warn: > > (defun llm--warn-on-nonfree (name tos) > "Issue a warning if `llm-warn-on-nonfree' is non-nil. > NAME is the human readable name of the LLM (e.g 'Open AI'). > > TOS is the URL of the terms of service for the LLM. > > All non-free LLMs should call this function on each llm function > invocation." > (when llm-warn-on-nonfree > (lwarn '(llm nonfree) :warning "%s API is not free software, and your > freedom to use it is restricted. > See %s for the details on the restrictions on use." name tos))) > > If this is sufficient, please consider accepting this package into GNU EL= PA > (see above where we decided this is a better fit than the Non-GNU ELPA). I would be fine with this, and would go ahead if there are no objections. > > On Sat, Aug 12, 2023 at 9:43=E2=80=AFPM Richard Stallman wr= ote: > >> [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] >> [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] >> [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] >> >> > What you are saying is consistent with the GNU coding standard. >> However, I >> > think any message about this would be annoying, >> >> I am sure it would be a little annoying. But assuming the user can >> type SPC and move on from that message, the annoyance will be quite >> little. >> >> personally, and would >> be a >> > deterrent for clients to use this library. >> >> If the library is quite useful I doubt anyone would be deterred. >> If anyone minded it the message enough to stop using the package, perse >> could >> edit this out of the code. >> >> This issue is an example of those where two different values are >> pertinent. There is convenience, which counts but is superficial. >> And there is the purpose of the GNU system, which for 40 years has led >> the fight against injustice in software. That value is deep and, in the >> long term, the most important value of all. >> >> When they conflict in a specific practical matter, there is always >> pressure to prioritize convenience. But that is not wise. >> The right approach is to look for a ocmpromise which serves both >> goals. I am sure we can find one here. >> >> I suggested showing the message once a day, because that is what first >> occurred to me. But there are lots of ways to vary the details. >> Here's an idea. For each language model, it could diisplay the >> message the first, second, fifth, tenth, and after that every tenth >> time the user starts that mode. With this, the frequency of little >> annoyance will diminish soon, but the point will not be forgotten. >> >> >> You made suggestions for how to exclude more code from Emacs itself, >> and support for obscure language models we probably should exclude. >> But there is no need to exclude the support for the well-known ones, >> as I've explained. >> >> And we can do better than that! We can educate the users about what >> is wrong with those systems -- something that the media hysteria fails >> to mention at all. That is important -- let's use Emacs for it! >> >> > All implementations can then separately be made available on some ot= her >> > package library not associated with GNU. In this scenario, I wouldn= 't >> have >> > warnings on those implementations, just as the many llm-based packag= es >> on >> > various alternative ELPAs do not have warnings today. >> >> They ought to show warnings -- the issue is exactly the same. >> >> We should not slide quietly into acceptance and normalization of a new >> systematic injustice. Opposing it is our job. >> >> -- >> Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) >> Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) >> Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) >> Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) >> >> >>