* additional improvement of Polish tutorial [not found] <87znvtjz06.fsf@mimuw.edu.pl> @ 2002-08-16 15:35 ` Janusz S. Bień 2002-08-17 4:51 ` Richard Stallman 0 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread From: Janusz S. Bień @ 2002-08-16 15:35 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: Beata Wójtowicz, Ryszard Kubiak [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 515 bytes --] I've corrected the name and coding of the file posted by Beata some time ago. I added also the use of the new TUTORIAL facility announced in April. The present version preserves the addition made by the original translators - it starts with some advice what to do if the Polish letters are not displayed correctly. Perhaps it would be good to extend all non-ASCII tutorials in this way? Perhaps the best universal formula would be to point to another language and/or country specific file. Best regards Janusz [-- Attachment #2: Polish tutorial --] [-- Type: application/zip, Size: 19417 bytes --] [-- Attachment #3: Type: text/plain, Size: 319 bytes --] -- , dr hab. Janusz S. Bien, prof. UW Prof. Janusz S. Bien, Warsaw Uniwersity http://www.orient.uw.edu.pl/~jsbien/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- Na tym koncie czytam i wysylam poczte i wiadomosci offline. On this account I read/post mail/news offline. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: additional improvement of Polish tutorial 2002-08-16 15:35 ` additional improvement of Polish tutorial Janusz S. Bień @ 2002-08-17 4:51 ` Richard Stallman 2002-08-17 21:21 ` Janusz S. Bień 0 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread From: Richard Stallman @ 2002-08-17 4:51 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: emacs-devel, wierzcho, rysiek The present version preserves the addition made by the original translators - it starts with some advice what to do if the Polish letters are not displayed correctly. Perhaps it would be good to extend all non-ASCII tutorials in this way? Can you translate it to English and make it a bit more general? Then it could make sense to put into the English version and it would eventually propagate into other versions. Is this the text that you mean? Niniejszy akapit celowo nie zawiera polskich liter. Jesli polskie znaki w dalszej czesci podrecznika nie sa poprawnie wyswietlane, to znaczy, ze Twoj Emacs nie zostal jeszcze prawidlowo skonfigurowany. Pomoc w tym zakresie mozesz znalezc pod adresem: <URL:http://www.agh.edu.pl/ogonki> What is the URL for? One thing I worry about is that the first screen is now too long to fit properly in a 24-line terminal. The instructions at the bottom for how to scroll won't appear! ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: additional improvement of Polish tutorial 2002-08-17 4:51 ` Richard Stallman @ 2002-08-17 21:21 ` Janusz S. Bień 2002-08-19 0:50 ` Richard Stallman 0 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread From: Janusz S. Bień @ 2002-08-17 21:21 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: emacs-devel, wierzcho, rysiek On Fri, 16 Aug 2002 Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> wrote: > The present version preserves the addition made by the original > translators - it starts with some advice what to do if the Polish > letters are not displayed correctly. Perhaps it would be good to > extend all non-ASCII tutorials in this way? > > Can you translate it to English and make it a bit more general? > Then it could make sense to put into the English version > and it would eventually propagate into other versions. The really elegant solution consists in making PROBLEMS file also language dependent: when `C-h t' opens `TUTORIAL.pl', `C-h P' should open `PROBLEMS.pl' instead of `PROBLEMS'. Then the following text should be sufficient: You are looking at the Emacs tutorial. If it contains non-ASCII (non-English?) letters (characters?) which are not displayed correctly, consult `Emacs Known Problems' in `Help' menu. Is it short enough not to cause the problem mentioned below? > > Is this the text that you mean? > > Niniejszy akapit celowo nie zawiera polskich liter. Jesli polskie znaki > w dalszej czesci podrecznika nie sa poprawnie wyswietlane, to znaczy, ze > Twoj Emacs nie zostal jeszcze prawidlowo skonfigurowany. Pomoc w tym > zakresie mozesz znalezc pod adresem: > <URL:http://www.agh.edu.pl/ogonki> Yes. > > What is the URL for? It is a Polish site devoted especially to problems with handling Polish letters by computer software. Ryszard Kubiak, the main translator of the tutorial, may provide more information if needed. > > One thing I worry about is that the first screen is now too long to > fit properly in a 24-line terminal. The instructions at the bottom > for how to scroll won't appear! That's a real problem! I hope the translators will propose a solution. Regards Janusz -- , dr hab. Janusz S. Bien, prof. UW Prof. Janusz S. Bien, Warsaw Uniwersity http://www.orient.uw.edu.pl/~jsbien/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- Na tym koncie czytam i wysylam poczte i wiadomosci offline. On this account I read/post mail/news offline. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: additional improvement of Polish tutorial 2002-08-17 21:21 ` Janusz S. Bień @ 2002-08-19 0:50 ` Richard Stallman 2002-08-22 20:00 ` Ryszard Kubiak 0 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread From: Richard Stallman @ 2002-08-19 0:50 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: emacs-devel, wierzcho, rysiek You are looking at the Emacs tutorial. If it contains non-ASCII (non-English?) letters (characters?) which are not displayed correctly, consult `Emacs Known Problems' in `Help' menu. Is it short enough not to cause the problem mentioned below? Please try it in a 24-line xterm and see. It is a Polish site devoted especially to problems with handling Polish letters by computer software. Ryszard Kubiak, the main translator of the tutorial, may provide more information if needed. Does it promote use of non-free software? We cannot refer to it if it does. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: additional improvement of Polish tutorial 2002-08-19 0:50 ` Richard Stallman @ 2002-08-22 20:00 ` Ryszard Kubiak 2002-08-23 15:59 ` Eli Zaretskii 2002-08-26 0:36 ` Richard Stallman 0 siblings, 2 replies; 7+ messages in thread From: Ryszard Kubiak @ 2002-08-22 20:00 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: jsbien, emacs-devel, wierzcho, matwb Dear Richard, > Does it promote use of non-free software? The link http://www.agh.edu.pl/ogonki refers to a collection of pages where people may learn how to solve problems with Polish national characters in various pieces of software. After thinking on the idea, and checking the contents of those pages I admit that the link should be removed from the Polish translation of the tutorial due to the legal problem you mantion. The idea behind placing the link was that in our translation we use Polish national characters. Emacs beginners will probably not see them when they read the tutorial in a freshly installed Emacs. It will be so since there are lots of Emacs parameters to be configurated for the accented characters to work properly. I think that Emacs on-line documentation lacks material on solving the most basic problems with manipulating text files in Emacs: such as inputing national characters, getting them on the screen and on paper. The file Emacs Known Problems is more about Emacs problems with itself, very exotic at places, than on solving those basic problems in Emacs. Just to give you an example of such a problem. At work, I've been using Emacs for many years now and, in particular, ntEmacs on Windows for a couple of years. For all this time with ntEmacs, I have not managed to print a text in Polish with lpr-buffer properly! None of all other text editors we exploit on Windows has problems with simply sending a text file to a printer. The Polish characters look on paper just as they should. Only when printed by Emacs they don't! I spent yet another two hours today on surfing the Internet, ntEmacs on-line documentation and various FAQs, in hope that somebody has solved the problem. Yet again, I made many experiments with plethora of MULE parameters. With no success. I don't know if there is something wrong with ntEmacs software, or, my configuration of MULE parameters is wrong. I believe that Emacs begginers should be referred as soon as in the tutorial to a place where they can learn on how to solve the common problems with national characters. The Emacs Known Problems file, however, is not the right reference. I second Junusz Bien's concept that Emacs distribution should contain PROBLEM files dedicated to solving problems in various countries. Best Regards, Rysiek ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: additional improvement of Polish tutorial 2002-08-22 20:00 ` Ryszard Kubiak @ 2002-08-23 15:59 ` Eli Zaretskii 2002-08-26 0:36 ` Richard Stallman 1 sibling, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2002-08-23 15:59 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: jsbien, emacs-devel, wierzcho, matwb > From: Ryszard Kubiak <rysiek@ipipan.gda.pl> > Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 22:00:35 +0200 > > Just to give you an example of such a problem. At work, I've been using > Emacs for many years now and, in particular, ntEmacs on Windows for a > couple of years. For all this time with ntEmacs, I have not managed to > print a text in Polish with lpr-buffer properly! None of all other text > editors we exploit on Windows has problems with simply sending a text > file to a printer. The Polish characters look on paper just as they > should. Only when printed by Emacs they don't! If this problem still exists, please tell the details. I don't see any reason why you shouldn't be able to print Polish text with lpr-buffer. Does it help to type "C-x RET c latin-2 RET" immediately before "M-x lpr-buffer RET"? What happens if you use cp1250 instead of latin-2? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: additional improvement of Polish tutorial 2002-08-22 20:00 ` Ryszard Kubiak 2002-08-23 15:59 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2002-08-26 0:36 ` Richard Stallman 1 sibling, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread From: Richard Stallman @ 2002-08-26 0:36 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: jsbien, emacs-devel, wierzcho, matwb I believe that Emacs begginers should be referred as soon as in the tutorial to a place where they can learn on how to solve the common problems with national characters. The Emacs Known Problems file, however, is not the right reference. I second Junusz Bien's concept that Emacs distribution should contain PROBLEM files dedicated to solving problems in various countries. We can certainly have a specific file meant to help Polish users. Would you like to write one? Then TUTORIAL.pl could refer to that. Please send me those changes, and then I will install them. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2002-08-26 0:36 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 7+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed -- links below jump to the message on this page -- [not found] <87znvtjz06.fsf@mimuw.edu.pl> 2002-08-16 15:35 ` additional improvement of Polish tutorial Janusz S. Bień 2002-08-17 4:51 ` Richard Stallman 2002-08-17 21:21 ` Janusz S. Bień 2002-08-19 0:50 ` Richard Stallman 2002-08-22 20:00 ` Ryszard Kubiak 2002-08-23 15:59 ` Eli Zaretskii 2002-08-26 0:36 ` Richard Stallman
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