* Emacs psychiatrist
@ 2008-03-20 19:21 gykati
2008-03-20 22:31 ` Drew Adams
` (2 more replies)
0 siblings, 3 replies; 30+ messages in thread
From: gykati @ 2008-03-20 19:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: bug-gnu-emacs
Hello!
I studied Emacs psychiatrist, and I think that behind
the program there is a vivid person (or persons?).
Is it so? I simply couldn't understand how one person could
reply to so many persons, who decided to use the program
Emacs psychiatrist.
Is the Emacs psychiatrist a real psychiatrist? Or do you
work on artificial intelligent and it is a very complex program?
(I don't think so...) I just started to interest in computers,
and anyway I found this program is very humorous.
Could you answer to my questions? I am extremly curious.
Another problem is that sending mails by emacs doesn't work on my
computer. Could you fix it?
Best regards,
Katalin Gyarmati
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: Emacs psychiatrist
[not found] <mailman.9275.1206051538.18990.bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
@ 2008-03-20 22:31 ` Joost Diepenmaat
0 siblings, 0 replies; 30+ messages in thread
From: Joost Diepenmaat @ 2008-03-20 22:31 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: gnu-emacs-bug
gykati@cs.elte.hu writes:
> Hello!
>
> I studied Emacs psychiatrist, and I think that behind
> the program there is a vivid person (or persons?).
> Is it so? I simply couldn't understand how one person could
> reply to so many persons, who decided to use the program
> Emacs psychiatrist.
>
> Is the Emacs psychiatrist a real psychiatrist? Or do you
> work on artificial intelligent and it is a very complex program?
> (I don't think so...) I just started to interest in computers,
> and anyway I found this program is very humorous.
>
> Could you answer to my questions? I am extremly curious.
Haha. *cough*
Anyway, In case you're serious or just interested in the subject, see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ELIZA and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing_test
> Another problem is that sending mails by emacs doesn't work on my
> computer. Could you fix it?
Somebody might, if you can provide enough detail so they can figure out
what you're doing and why it doesn't work...
--
Joost Diepenmaat | blog: http://joost.zeekat.nl/ | work: http://zeekat.nl/
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* RE: Emacs psychiatrist
2008-03-20 19:21 gykati
@ 2008-03-20 22:31 ` Drew Adams
[not found] ` <mailman.9277.1206052394.18990.bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-03-21 1:11 ` Stefan Monnier
2 siblings, 0 replies; 30+ messages in thread
From: Drew Adams @ 2008-03-20 22:31 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: gykati, bug-gnu-emacs
> I studied Emacs psychiatrist, and I think that behind
> the program there is a vivid person (or persons?).
> Is it so? I simply couldn't understand how one person could
> reply to so many persons, who decided to use the program
> Emacs psychiatrist.
>
> Is the Emacs psychiatrist a real psychiatrist? Or do you
> work on artificial intelligent and it is a very complex program?
> (I don't think so...) I just started to interest in computers,
> and anyway I found this program is very humorous.
If you can't tell, then what's the difference? ;-)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing_test
Anyway, yes, it's a program. The source code is in library `doctor.el'. You
can find out about any Emacs function by using `C-h f' - in this case, `C-h
f doctor'. The function description give you a link to the source code. The
source code for all of Emacs is available at your fingertips. Enjoy.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: Emacs psychiatrist
[not found] ` <mailman.9277.1206052394.18990.bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
@ 2008-03-20 23:05 ` Peter Tury
2008-03-21 8:04 ` Reiner Steib
0 siblings, 1 reply; 30+ messages in thread
From: Peter Tury @ 2008-03-20 23:05 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: bug-gnu-emacs
On márc. 20, 23:31, "Drew Adams" <drew.ad...@oracle.com> wrote:
> Anyway, yes, it's a program. The source code is in library `doctor.el'. You
> can find out about any Emacs function by using `C-h f' - in this case, `C-h
> f doctor'.
Why "doctor"? Use C-h k and then click onto the menu: you will see
what is really called...
> The function description give you a link to the source code. The
> source code for all of Emacs is available at your fingertips. Enjoy.
Except if you installed "barebin" version (I guess).
Anyway. Please use gnu.emacs.help for simple questions.
...bug is for bug reports. And, if I remember well, gnus (mailing) has
its own newsgroup.
\bye
P
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: Emacs psychiatrist
2008-03-20 19:21 gykati
2008-03-20 22:31 ` Drew Adams
[not found] ` <mailman.9277.1206052394.18990.bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
@ 2008-03-21 1:11 ` Stefan Monnier
2008-03-21 1:17 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2 siblings, 1 reply; 30+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Monnier @ 2008-03-21 1:11 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: gykati; +Cc: bug-gnu-emacs
> I studied Emacs psychiatrist, and I think that behind
> the program there is a vivid person (or persons?).
> Is it so? I simply couldn't understand how one person could
> reply to so many persons, who decided to use the program
> Emacs psychiatrist.
> Is the Emacs psychiatrist a real psychiatrist? Or do you
> work on artificial intelligent and it is a very complex program?
> (I don't think so...) I just started to interest in computers,
> and anyway I found this program is very humorous.
Actually, it's not a psychiatrist (obviously: it doesn't prescribe any
drug), just a psychoanalyst.
You may want to read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ELIZA
> Another problem is that sending mails by Emacs doesn't work on my
> computer. Could you fix it?
Have you asked M-x doctor?
More seriously, we can't help you if you don't give us more information
about what you tried to do and what happened.
Stefan
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: Emacs psychiatrist
2008-03-21 1:11 ` Stefan Monnier
@ 2008-03-21 1:17 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-03-21 13:37 ` Bastien
[not found] ` <mailman.9292.1206106639.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
0 siblings, 2 replies; 30+ messages in thread
From: Lennart Borgman (gmail) @ 2008-03-21 1:17 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Stefan Monnier; +Cc: bug-gnu-emacs, gykati
Stefan Monnier wrote:
> Actually, it's not a psychiatrist (obviously: it doesn't prescribe any
> drug), just a psychoanalyst.
Well, that's incorrect I believe. Shouldn't it be
Actually, it's not a psychiatrist (obviously: it doesn't
just prescribe some drug), it is a psychoanalyst.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: Emacs psychiatrist
2008-03-20 23:05 ` Peter Tury
@ 2008-03-21 8:04 ` Reiner Steib
0 siblings, 0 replies; 30+ messages in thread
From: Reiner Steib @ 2008-03-21 8:04 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Peter Tury; +Cc: bug-gnu-emacs, gykati
On Fri, Mar 21 2008, Peter Tury wrote:
> And, if I remember well, gnus (mailing) has its own newsgroup.
Emacs has several mail user agents. The OP didn't mention Gnus.
Bye, Reiner.
--
,,,
(o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- | PGP key available | http://rsteib.home.pages.de/
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: Emacs psychiatrist
2008-03-21 1:17 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
@ 2008-03-21 13:37 ` Bastien
2008-03-21 13:50 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
[not found] ` <mailman.9292.1206106639.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
1 sibling, 1 reply; 30+ messages in thread
From: Bastien @ 2008-03-21 13:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: help-gnu-emacs
"Lennart Borgman (gmail)" <lennart.borgman@gmail.com> writes:
> Stefan Monnier wrote:
>> Actually, it's not a psychiatrist (obviously: it doesn't prescribe any
>> drug), just a psychoanalyst.
>
> Well, that's incorrect I believe. Shouldn't it be
>
> Actually, it's not a psychiatrist (obviously: it doesn't
> just prescribe some drug), it is a psychoanalyst.
AFAIK there are more psychiatrists that are also psychoanalysts than
psychoanalysts that are also psychiatrists. So in most of the cases
the role of the psychiatrists-psychoanalyst is not to "just" prescribe
drugs.
--
Bastien
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: Emacs psychiatrist
2008-03-21 13:37 ` Bastien
@ 2008-03-21 13:50 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-03-21 13:57 ` Bastien Guerry
2008-03-21 16:41 ` David Hansen
0 siblings, 2 replies; 30+ messages in thread
From: Lennart Borgman (gmail) @ 2008-03-21 13:50 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Bastien; +Cc: help-gnu-emacs
Bastien wrote:
> "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" <lennart.borgman@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Stefan Monnier wrote:
>>> Actually, it's not a psychiatrist (obviously: it doesn't prescribe any
>>> drug), just a psychoanalyst.
>> Well, that's incorrect I believe. Shouldn't it be
>>
>> Actually, it's not a psychiatrist (obviously: it doesn't
>> just prescribe some drug), it is a psychoanalyst.
>
> AFAIK there are more psychiatrists that are also psychoanalysts than
> psychoanalysts that are also psychiatrists. So in most of the cases
> the role of the psychiatrists-psychoanalyst is not to "just" prescribe
> drugs.
The condition to check would be if the are more psychiatrists that are
also psychoanalysts then there are psychiatrists that are not also
psychoanalysts.
And the answer to that seems quite obvious. Psychiatrits often have a
much, much shorter education in psychology than most people would expect.
So I guess "just" prescribe is what happens in most cases.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: Emacs psychiatrist
2008-03-21 13:50 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
@ 2008-03-21 13:57 ` Bastien Guerry
2008-03-21 14:11 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
[not found] ` <mailman.9299.1206108722.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-03-21 16:41 ` David Hansen
1 sibling, 2 replies; 30+ messages in thread
From: Bastien Guerry @ 2008-03-21 13:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: help-gnu-emacs
"Lennart Borgman (gmail)" <lennart.borgman@gmail.com> writes:
> So I guess "just" prescribe is what happens in most cases.
The fact that a doctor just prescribes some drugs doesn't prove he
is not also a psychoanalyst.
--
Bastien
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: Emacs psychiatrist
2008-03-21 13:57 ` Bastien Guerry
@ 2008-03-21 14:11 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-03-21 14:34 ` Andreas Röhler
[not found] ` <mailman.9299.1206108722.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
1 sibling, 1 reply; 30+ messages in thread
From: Lennart Borgman (gmail) @ 2008-03-21 14:11 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Bastien Guerry; +Cc: help-gnu-emacs
Bastien Guerry wrote:
> "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" <lennart.borgman@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> So I guess "just" prescribe is what happens in most cases.
>
> The fact that a doctor just prescribes some drugs doesn't prove he
> is not also a psychoanalyst.
No, but maybe that he is not also a good psychoanalysts.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: Emacs psychiatrist
2008-03-21 14:11 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
@ 2008-03-21 14:34 ` Andreas Röhler
2008-03-21 14:43 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
0 siblings, 1 reply; 30+ messages in thread
From: Andreas Röhler @ 2008-03-21 14:34 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: help-gnu-emacs
Am Freitag, 21. März 2008 15:11 schrieb Lennart Borgman (gmail):
> Bastien Guerry wrote:
> > "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" <lennart.borgman@gmail.com> writes:
> >
> >> So I guess "just" prescribe is what happens in most cases.
> >
> > The fact that a doctor just prescribes some drugs doesn't prove he
> > is not also a psychoanalyst.
>
> No, but maybe that he is not also a good psychoanalysts.
>
>
>
What about to invite a really good one? :)
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: Emacs psychiatrist
2008-03-21 14:34 ` Andreas Röhler
@ 2008-03-21 14:43 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
0 siblings, 0 replies; 30+ messages in thread
From: Lennart Borgman (gmail) @ 2008-03-21 14:43 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Andreas Röhler; +Cc: help-gnu-emacs
Andreas Röhler wrote:
> Am Freitag, 21. März 2008 15:11 schrieb Lennart Borgman (gmail):
>> Bastien Guerry wrote:
>>> "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" <lennart.borgman@gmail.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> So I guess "just" prescribe is what happens in most cases.
>>> The fact that a doctor just prescribes some drugs doesn't prove he
>>> is not also a psychoanalyst.
>> No, but maybe that he is not also a good psychoanalysts.
>>
>>
>>
>
> What about to invite a really good one? :)
I thought Eliza was already reading this list, right?
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: Emacs psychiatrist
[not found] ` <mailman.9299.1206108722.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
@ 2008-03-21 15:22 ` Johan Bockgård
2008-03-21 16:09 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-03-25 8:42 ` Tim X
0 siblings, 2 replies; 30+ messages in thread
From: Johan Bockgård @ 2008-03-21 15:22 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: help-gnu-emacs
"Lennart Borgman (gmail)" <lennart.borgman@gmail.com> writes:
> Bastien Guerry wrote:
>> "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" <lennart.borgman@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> So I guess "just" prescribe is what happens in most cases.
>>
>> The fact that a doctor just prescribes some drugs doesn't prove he
>> is not also a psychoanalyst.
>
> No, but maybe that he is not also a good psychoanalysts.
Psychoanalysis is a pseudoscience anyway.
--
Johan Bockgård
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: Emacs psychiatrist
2008-03-21 15:22 ` Johan Bockgård
@ 2008-03-21 16:09 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-03-21 16:44 ` Bastien
2008-03-25 8:42 ` Tim X
1 sibling, 1 reply; 30+ messages in thread
From: Lennart Borgman (gmail) @ 2008-03-21 16:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Johan Bockgård; +Cc: help-gnu-emacs
Johan Bockgård wrote:
> "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" <lennart.borgman@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Bastien Guerry wrote:
>>> "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" <lennart.borgman@gmail.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> So I guess "just" prescribe is what happens in most cases.
>>> The fact that a doctor just prescribes some drugs doesn't prove he
>>> is not also a psychoanalyst.
>> No, but maybe that he is not also a good psychoanalysts.
>
> Psychoanalysis is a pseudoscience anyway.
So is all science of course.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: Emacs psychiatrist
2008-03-21 13:50 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-03-21 13:57 ` Bastien Guerry
@ 2008-03-21 16:41 ` David Hansen
2008-03-21 16:58 ` Drew Adams
2008-03-21 17:13 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
1 sibling, 2 replies; 30+ messages in thread
From: David Hansen @ 2008-03-21 16:41 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: help-gnu-emacs
On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 14:50:15 +0100 Lennart Borgman wrote:
> Bastien wrote:
>> "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" <lennart.borgman@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> Stefan Monnier wrote:
>>>> Actually, it's not a psychiatrist (obviously: it doesn't prescribe any
>>>> drug), just a psychoanalyst.
>>> Well, that's incorrect I believe. Shouldn't it be
>>>
>>> Actually, it's not a psychiatrist (obviously: it doesn't
>>> just prescribe some drug), it is a psychoanalyst.
>>
>> AFAIK there are more psychiatrists that are also psychoanalysts than
>> psychoanalysts that are also psychiatrists. So in most of the cases
>> the role of the psychiatrists-psychoanalyst is not to "just"
>> prescribe
>> drugs.
>
> The condition to check would be if the are more psychiatrists that are
> also psychoanalysts then there are psychiatrists that are not also
> psychoanalysts.
>
> And the answer to that seems quite obvious. Psychiatrits often have a
> much, much shorter education in psychology than most people would
> expect.
>
> So I guess "just" prescribe is what happens in most cases.
Psychoanalysis doesn't play any role in modern psychology. Psychology
is mainly applied statistics. And I doubt any serious scientist these
days will count psychoanalysis as "science". Check out some Popper or
the "light" and understandable comments from Feynman.
David
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: Emacs psychiatrist
2008-03-21 16:09 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
@ 2008-03-21 16:44 ` Bastien
0 siblings, 0 replies; 30+ messages in thread
From: Bastien @ 2008-03-21 16:44 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Lennart Borgman (gmail); +Cc: help-gnu-emacs, Johan Bockgård
"Lennart Borgman (gmail)" <lennart.borgman@gmail.com> writes:
> Johan Bockgård wrote:
>> "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" <lennart.borgman@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> Bastien Guerry wrote:
>
>>>> "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" <lennart.borgman@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> So I guess "just" prescribe is what happens in most cases.
>>>> The fact that a doctor just prescribes some drugs doesn't prove he
>>>> is not also a psychoanalyst.
>>> No, but maybe that he is not also a good psychoanalysts.
>>
>> Psychoanalysis is a pseudoscience anyway.
>
> So is all science of course.
:)
But if all science is a pseudoscience, how can a pseudoscience be a
pseudoscience?
--
Bastien
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* RE: Emacs psychiatrist
2008-03-21 16:41 ` David Hansen
@ 2008-03-21 16:58 ` Drew Adams
2008-03-21 17:13 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
1 sibling, 0 replies; 30+ messages in thread
From: Drew Adams @ 2008-03-21 16:58 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: help-gnu-emacs
I hate to pour cold water on such a hot topic, but could you
please take the discussion of psycho, sudo, and science off
list. Things are crazy enough on this list. :-)
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: Emacs psychiatrist
2008-03-21 16:41 ` David Hansen
2008-03-21 16:58 ` Drew Adams
@ 2008-03-21 17:13 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-03-22 13:30 ` David Hansen
1 sibling, 1 reply; 30+ messages in thread
From: Lennart Borgman (gmail) @ 2008-03-21 17:13 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: help-gnu-emacs
David Hansen wrote:
> Psychoanalysis doesn't play any role in modern psychology. Psychology
> is mainly applied statistics. And I doubt any serious scientist these
> days will count psychoanalysis as "science". Check out some Popper or
> the "light" and understandable comments from Feynman.
Or check what happened later, read neuropsychoanalysis.
Psychology is absolutely not only applied statistics. That is part of
it. There is simply more knowledge than that kind you can catch with
statistics. Why throw away things that does not fit?
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: Emacs psychiatrist
[not found] ` <mailman.9292.1206106639.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
@ 2008-03-21 20:05 ` stan
2008-03-22 3:37 ` Drew Adams
2008-03-25 8:03 ` Tim X
2008-03-22 3:14 ` Joe Fineman
1 sibling, 2 replies; 30+ messages in thread
From: stan @ 2008-03-21 20:05 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: help-gnu-emacs
Bastien wrote:
> "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" <lennart.borgman@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Stefan Monnier wrote:
>>> Actually, it's not a psychiatrist (obviously: it doesn't prescribe any
>>> drug), just a psychoanalyst.
>>
>> Well, that's incorrect I believe. Shouldn't it be
>>
>> Actually, it's not a psychiatrist (obviously: it doesn't
>> just prescribe some drug), it is a psychoanalyst.
>
> AFAIK there are more psychiatrists that are also psychoanalysts than
> psychoanalysts that are also psychiatrists. So in most of the cases
> the role of the psychiatrists-psychoanalyst is not to "just" prescribe
> drugs.
My money is on Zippy to have access to better drugs than Eliza. ;)
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: Emacs psychiatrist
[not found] ` <mailman.9292.1206106639.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-03-21 20:05 ` stan
@ 2008-03-22 3:14 ` Joe Fineman
2008-03-22 13:05 ` Bastien
[not found] ` <mailman.9335.1206191146.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
1 sibling, 2 replies; 30+ messages in thread
From: Joe Fineman @ 2008-03-22 3:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: help-gnu-emacs
Bastien <bzg@altern.org> writes:
> AFAIK there are more psychiatrists that are also psychoanalysts than
> psychoanalysts that are also psychiatrists.
I thought union of sets was commutative.
--
--- Joe Fineman joe_f@verizon.net
||: Dress for success: wear a white penis. :||
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* RE: Emacs psychiatrist
2008-03-21 20:05 ` stan
@ 2008-03-22 3:37 ` Drew Adams
2008-03-25 8:03 ` Tim X
1 sibling, 0 replies; 30+ messages in thread
From: Drew Adams @ 2008-03-22 3:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: 'stan', help-gnu-emacs
> My money is on Zippy to have access to better drugs than Eliza. ;)
8-)
Zippy is beyond drugs and beyond Eliza. He is beyond the laundromat. Beyond.
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/fun/zippy.asp?
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: Emacs psychiatrist
2008-03-22 3:14 ` Joe Fineman
@ 2008-03-22 13:05 ` Bastien
2008-03-22 13:16 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
[not found] ` <mailman.9335.1206191146.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
1 sibling, 1 reply; 30+ messages in thread
From: Bastien @ 2008-03-22 13:05 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: help-gnu-emacs
Joe Fineman <joe_f@verizon.net> writes:
> Bastien <bzg@altern.org> writes:
>
>> AFAIK there are more psychiatrists that are also psychoanalysts than
>> psychoanalysts that are also psychiatrists.
>
> I thought union of sets was commutative.
Of course, I meant: "There are more psychiatrists that become
psychoanalysts than psychoanalysts that become psychiatrists."
--
Bastien
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: Emacs psychiatrist
2008-03-22 13:05 ` Bastien
@ 2008-03-22 13:16 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
0 siblings, 0 replies; 30+ messages in thread
From: Lennart Borgman (gmail) @ 2008-03-22 13:16 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Bastien; +Cc: help-gnu-emacs
Bastien wrote:
> Joe Fineman <joe_f@verizon.net> writes:
>
>> Bastien <bzg@altern.org> writes:
>>
>>> AFAIK there are more psychiatrists that are also psychoanalysts than
>>> psychoanalysts that are also psychiatrists.
>> I thought union of sets was commutative.
>
> Of course, I meant: "There are more psychiatrists that become
> psychoanalysts than psychoanalysts that become psychiatrists."
Oh, yes, of course. That is the heart of it. Why should a psychoanalyst
become a psychiatrist? ;-)
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: Emacs psychiatrist
2008-03-21 17:13 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
@ 2008-03-22 13:30 ` David Hansen
2008-03-22 13:52 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
0 siblings, 1 reply; 30+ messages in thread
From: David Hansen @ 2008-03-22 13:30 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: help-gnu-emacs
On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 18:13:15 +0100 Lennart Borgman wrote:
> David Hansen wrote:
>> Psychoanalysis doesn't play any role in modern psychology. Psychology
>> is mainly applied statistics. And I doubt any serious scientist these
>> days will count psychoanalysis as "science". Check out some Popper or
>> the "light" and understandable comments from Feynman.
>
> Or check what happened later, read neuropsychoanalysis.
At least they try to find some scientific base. Don't know about their
success though.
> Psychology is absolutely not only applied statistics.
I said `mainly' (though this might be the case with almost any science).
> That is part of it. There is simply more knowledge than that kind you
> can catch with statistics. Why throw away things that does not fit?
"Knowledge" is kind of worthless if you can't prove it wrong or right.
Without falsifiability it's nothing more than a neat idea and no
knowledge at all. And statistics is more or less the only way to deal
with any data, no matter if you observe planets orbiting the sun or far
more complex and weird objects like human beings.
David
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: Emacs psychiatrist
2008-03-22 13:30 ` David Hansen
@ 2008-03-22 13:52 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
0 siblings, 0 replies; 30+ messages in thread
From: Lennart Borgman (gmail) @ 2008-03-22 13:52 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: help-gnu-emacs
David Hansen wrote:
> "Knowledge" is kind of worthless if you can't prove it wrong or right.
> Without falsifiability it's nothing more than a neat idea and no
> knowledge at all. And statistics is more or less the only way to deal
> with any data, no matter if you observe planets orbiting the sun or far
> more complex and weird objects like human beings.
Are you sure about what you mean with "knowledge", "prove", "right" and
"wrong" here?
Do you have some knowledge of that you are alive? Do you have some
knowledge of your feelings? If you have some children are you sure of
that? Is it a fact, is it knowledge?
Even if you would like to reserve "knowledge" for something defined
within a "statistical onthology" (which is a strange thing to do for a
common word) don't you think other things are worth knowning too? Aren't
they important when you try to decide what to do?
Don't you think reasoning about this kind of knowledge can be as sharp
as reasoning about statistical kind of knowledge?
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: Emacs psychiatrist
[not found] ` <mailman.9335.1206191146.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
@ 2008-03-23 0:45 ` Joe Fineman
2008-03-23 1:53 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
0 siblings, 1 reply; 30+ messages in thread
From: Joe Fineman @ 2008-03-23 0:45 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: help-gnu-emacs
Bastien <bzg@altern.org> writes:
> Joe Fineman <joe_f@verizon.net> writes:
>
>> Bastien <bzg@altern.org> writes:
>>
>>> AFAIK there are more psychiatrists that are also psychoanalysts
>>> than psychoanalysts that are also psychiatrists.
>>
>> I thought union of sets was commutative.
>
> Of course, I meant: "There are more psychiatrists that become
> psychoanalysts than psychoanalysts that become psychiatrists."
And of course, I meant: "I thought intersections of sets was
commutative".
%^)
--
--- Joe Fineman joe_f@verizon.net
||: If you're cute _and_ useful, your clock never stops :||
||: running. :||
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: Emacs psychiatrist
2008-03-23 0:45 ` Joe Fineman
@ 2008-03-23 1:53 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
0 siblings, 0 replies; 30+ messages in thread
From: Lennart Borgman (gmail) @ 2008-03-23 1:53 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Joe Fineman; +Cc: help-gnu-emacs
Joe Fineman wrote:
> Bastien <bzg@altern.org> writes:
>
>> Joe Fineman <joe_f@verizon.net> writes:
>>
>>> Bastien <bzg@altern.org> writes:
>>>
>>>> AFAIK there are more psychiatrists that are also psychoanalysts
>>>> than psychoanalysts that are also psychiatrists.
>>> I thought union of sets was commutative.
>> Of course, I meant: "There are more psychiatrists that become
>> psychoanalysts than psychoanalysts that become psychiatrists."
>
> And of course, I meant: "I thought intersections of sets was
> commutative".
>
> %^)
This is the thing that psychoanalysts may deal with, the real meaning of
your words.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: Emacs psychiatrist
2008-03-21 20:05 ` stan
2008-03-22 3:37 ` Drew Adams
@ 2008-03-25 8:03 ` Tim X
1 sibling, 0 replies; 30+ messages in thread
From: Tim X @ 2008-03-25 8:03 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: help-gnu-emacs
stan <smoore@exis.net> writes:
> Bastien wrote:
>> "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" <lennart.borgman@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> Stefan Monnier wrote:
>>>> Actually, it's not a psychiatrist (obviously: it doesn't prescribe any
>>>> drug), just a psychoanalyst.
>>>
>>> Well, that's incorrect I believe. Shouldn't it be
>>>
>>> Actually, it's not a psychiatrist (obviously: it doesn't
>>> just prescribe some drug), it is a psychoanalyst.
>>
>> AFAIK there are more psychiatrists that are also psychoanalysts than
>> psychoanalysts that are also psychiatrists. So in most of the cases
>> the role of the psychiatrists-psychoanalyst is not to "just" prescribe
>> drugs.
>
> My money is on Zippy to have access to better drugs than Eliza. ;)
I think the destinction is between psychiatrist and psychologist - the
former is able to prescribe drugs while the later cannot.
Back when I did psychology, psychoanalyst was either a psychiatrist or
psychologist who subscribed to Freud's psychoanalytical approach i.e. it
was a specific school of thought on the analysis and treatment of
various psychological disorders. It is not the only approach an in fact,
back in the early 80's at least, had pretty much fallen out of favor
compared to other theories that were not based on defining what was
'normal' essentially through interviews with people defined as
'abnormal' and dependent on unproven concepts such as the edipus/elektra
complex, penis envy, Id, super Id and Ego. Modern psychology tends to
prefer theories with more scientific rigor (or at least pseudo-rigor!).
Tim
--
tcross (at) rapttech dot com dot au
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
* Re: Emacs psychiatrist
2008-03-21 15:22 ` Johan Bockgård
2008-03-21 16:09 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
@ 2008-03-25 8:42 ` Tim X
1 sibling, 0 replies; 30+ messages in thread
From: Tim X @ 2008-03-25 8:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: help-gnu-emacs
bojohan+news@dd.chalmers.se (Johan Bockgård) writes:
> "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" <lennart.borgman@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Bastien Guerry wrote:
>>> "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" <lennart.borgman@gmail.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> So I guess "just" prescribe is what happens in most cases.
>>>
>>> The fact that a doctor just prescribes some drugs doesn't prove he
>>> is not also a psychoanalyst.
>>
>> No, but maybe that he is not also a good psychoanalysts.
>
> Psychoanalysis is a pseudoscience anyway.
>
Psychoanalysis is not even a pseudo science - no scientific methodology
was applied. Psychoanalysis is another name for Freud's theories and
analysis/treatment 'techniques'. These days, it has pretty much fallen
out of favor.
Issues of ethics and human experimentation make it very difficult for
psychology to apply the same types of experimental rigor that most
associate with science, but generally it does try to apply the
principals of scientific rigor to experimental research. Things are
complicated by the fact we still don't really know what concepts like
'mind' 'intelligence' 'emotion' etc really means and as we can't really
define it in a universally acceptable way, we can't look at it, measure
it, poke it or dissect it. To a large part, psychology is really
statistics - its a best guess based on the collection of large amounts
of data obtained via surveys, subjective observations and other data
sources that are pushed through some statistical model which identifies
some correlation. Frequent points of debate/arguement amongst
psychologists tend to be based on statistical analysis and
interpretation or application of statistical models rather than
arguements regarding the underlying theory. This isn't to say there is
just one theory or there aren't competing theories - just that this
isn't where the debates tend to focus. Different schools of theory tend
to just discount those schools they don't agree with, but within their
school of choice, they tend to spend large amounts of time arguing about
the statistics rather than the underlying theoretical constructs.
Psychiatrists tend to be people with a medical degree who have also
studied psychology. As they have a medical degree, they are able to
prescribe drugs. Psychologists tend not to have a medical degree and
therefore cannot prescribe drugs. As mentioned by someone else,
psychiatrists may not actually have much training in
psychology. Normally, you can become a psychologist by completing an
undergraduate degree, but to practice as a clinical psychologist
(i.e. be able to have and treat patients), you need to do some post
graduate studies.
To be a psychoanalyst you have to speak with a thick Austrian accent,
look a bit like Einstein after a bad night and be obsessed with sexual
disfunction that all stems from a desire to have sex with your
mother/father. All problems stem from feelings of guilt and jealousy
rgarding either your father's relationship/access to your mother or your
mother's access/relationship to your father.
Lying on a couch and talking about it provides lots of vicarious sexual
pleasure for the therapist. One of Freud's treatment techniques,
particularly for many of the women he use to see, was a nice relaxing
genital massage, which apparently was quite popular with the sexually
repressed women around in the late 1800s.
Tim
> --
--
tcross (at) rapttech dot com dot au
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 30+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2008-03-25 8:42 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 30+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
[not found] <mailman.9275.1206051538.18990.bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-03-20 22:31 ` Emacs psychiatrist Joost Diepenmaat
2008-03-20 19:21 gykati
2008-03-20 22:31 ` Drew Adams
[not found] ` <mailman.9277.1206052394.18990.bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-03-20 23:05 ` Peter Tury
2008-03-21 8:04 ` Reiner Steib
2008-03-21 1:11 ` Stefan Monnier
2008-03-21 1:17 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-03-21 13:37 ` Bastien
2008-03-21 13:50 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-03-21 13:57 ` Bastien Guerry
2008-03-21 14:11 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-03-21 14:34 ` Andreas Röhler
2008-03-21 14:43 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
[not found] ` <mailman.9299.1206108722.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-03-21 15:22 ` Johan Bockgård
2008-03-21 16:09 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-03-21 16:44 ` Bastien
2008-03-25 8:42 ` Tim X
2008-03-21 16:41 ` David Hansen
2008-03-21 16:58 ` Drew Adams
2008-03-21 17:13 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
2008-03-22 13:30 ` David Hansen
2008-03-22 13:52 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
[not found] ` <mailman.9292.1206106639.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-03-21 20:05 ` stan
2008-03-22 3:37 ` Drew Adams
2008-03-25 8:03 ` Tim X
2008-03-22 3:14 ` Joe Fineman
2008-03-22 13:05 ` Bastien
2008-03-22 13:16 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
[not found] ` <mailman.9335.1206191146.18990.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2008-03-23 0:45 ` Joe Fineman
2008-03-23 1:53 ` Lennart Borgman (gmail)
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