From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: OT: threats to Free Software (was: AW: Fwd: CEDET sync) Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2010 13:00:10 +0900 Message-ID: <87tysyvyut.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <86bpf7q3fc.wl%lluis@ginnungagap.pc.ac.upc.edu> <87wrxvyijr.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <4B8C42E2.3080308@siege-engine.com> <7697A57B1AD9104F993CDF6A5B69430C09227D1F24@CORPMAIL08.corp.capgemini.com> <878wabxg0x.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87mxyrhxq8.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <87635eycga.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87hboyhfnt.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <87zl2qwsgk.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1267588163 16992 80.91.229.12 (3 Mar 2010 03:49:23 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 03:49:23 +0000 (UTC) Cc: David Kastrup , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Mar 03 04:49:19 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NmfaI-0007ji-EI for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 03 Mar 2010 04:49:18 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42385 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NmfaH-0005ls-Vx for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 02 Mar 2010 22:49:18 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NmfaC-0005ld-8w for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 02 Mar 2010 22:49:12 -0500 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=41360 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NmfaA-0005lV-Hz for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 02 Mar 2010 22:49:10 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Nmfa9-0005wY-Vk for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 02 Mar 2010 22:49:10 -0500 Original-Received: from mtps01.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp ([130.158.97.223]:43717) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Nmfa8-0005wH-8q; Tue, 02 Mar 2010 22:49:08 -0500 Original-Received: from uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp [130.158.99.156]) by mtps01.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1EC5C1535B3; Wed, 3 Mar 2010 12:49:07 +0900 (JST) Original-Received: by uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix, from userid 1000) id ABEF61A37D9; Wed, 3 Mar 2010 13:00:10 +0900 (JST) In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: VM 8.0.12-devo-585 under 21.5 (beta29) "garbanzo" a03421eb562b XEmacs Lucid (x86_64-unknown-linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:121583 Archived-At: Stefan Monnier writes: > I think the real threat the FSF's ideals is that computers are being > split into two camps: > - cell-phones > - web-services > there are still some things in the middle (laptops/desktops) where users > can run Free Software, but the tendency is pretty clear. Good point. But Emacs doesn't really run on either extreme. How is this relevant to Emacs? > Both sides (cell-phones and web-services) may internally run Free > Software, but users enjoy (currently at least) none of the freedoms > provided by Free Software. The question I ask is "how much of that is due to user taste?" There's also the problem that the GNU/FSF line has long been that hardware and software can be separated, and insisting on freedom in software is sine qua non, while insisting on freedom in hardware (ie, embedded systems) is a non-starter (this is the original reason for the GNU/Aladdin split in Ghostscript, you may recall). But these new platforms very much blur the line, just as printers and faxes did for Ghostscript. The answer that Richard gave Peter at the time may very well have been correct at that time. Clearly however the situation has changed, such that new licenses such as the Affero license have been developed to address *some* of these issues. I have to wonder if this should not affect Emacs's strategy as well.