From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Efforts to attract more users? Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 17:05:05 +0900 Message-ID: <87tyo5i0r2.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <871vb9k0ob.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <83ocedtbf9.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1278922296 342 80.91.229.12 (12 Jul 2010 08:11:36 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 08:11:36 +0000 (UTC) Cc: lekktu@gmail.com, lennart.borgman@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Jul 12 10:11:33 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OYE6u-0005Dr-8I for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 10:11:32 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36442 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OYE6t-00083B-Et for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 04:11:31 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=54912 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OYE6f-0007yi-Ep for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 04:11:22 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OYE6b-0003QY-9p for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 04:11:17 -0400 Original-Received: from mtps01.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp ([130.158.97.223]:50727) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OYE6Y-0003Pj-An; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 04:11:10 -0400 Original-Received: from uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp [130.158.99.156]) by mtps01.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F4B11535A8; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 17:11:08 +0900 (JST) Original-Received: by uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 704E21A263F; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 17:05:05 +0900 (JST) In-Reply-To: <83ocedtbf9.fsf@gnu.org> X-Mailer: VM 8.0.12-devo-585 under 21.5 (beta29) "garbanzo" ed3b274cc037 XEmacs Lucid (x86_64-unknown-linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:127089 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: > requests for changes. The problem started when Lennart effectively > refused to modify his code according to the comments. I acknowledge that, and I've been following emacs-devel for about a decade now; my opinion of this case is *not* based on one or two recent interactions. See also my reply to Juanma. > IOW, if there is stubbornness, you will find plenty of it -- on > Lennart's side. Lennart is one individual. A individual non-committer's stubbornness is not a problem; if you don't feel like dealing with it, just put him in your killfile. Emacs's stubbornness (assuming it exists) *is* a problem; putting emacs-devel in your killfile just won't do. > It's a shame that Emacs development seems to lose Lennart's resources > of time and energy, but I really don't see how things could go > differently, It's very easy to see how it could go differently. Do what he asks, on a case by case business. Of course you have to get papers. And you have to reserve the right to make arbitrary changes to his contributed code. (That actually should go without saying, but in this case it might be a good idea to make it explicit.) But I suspect that as long as it works he won't even check what you did to fit it into Emacs coding style etc. And finally, the code has to be worth making an exception. Maybe I'm misjudging what this is worth to Emacs; on that, I concede that you and Juanma are far better judges than I ever will be.