From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ted Zlatanov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: GnuTLS for W32 Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2012 11:16:34 -0500 Organization: =?utf-8?B?0KLQtdC+0LTQvtGAINCX0LvQsNGC0LDQvdC+0LI=?= @ Cienfuegos Message-ID: <87ty4e9j19.fsf@lifelogs.com> References: <87aa68dfao.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87ty4fbje8.fsf@lifelogs.com> <83ehvjs8t5.fsf@gnu.org> <87pqf3bcom.fsf@lifelogs.com> <83boqns68o.fsf@gnu.org> <87liprazr1.fsf@lifelogs.com> <83wr9bqez3.fsf@gnu.org> <87y5tr9dwv.fsf_-_@lifelogs.com> <87k45alwgb.fsf@wanadoo.es> <87fwfyltm1.fsf@wanadoo.es> <87boqmlrma.fsf@wanadoo.es> Reply-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1325521022 19820 80.91.229.12 (2 Jan 2012 16:17:02 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2012 16:17:02 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Jan 02 17:16:58 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RhkZD-0002Jg-Ad for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 02 Jan 2012 17:16:56 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:48649 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RhkZC-0002Lr-KE for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 02 Jan 2012 11:16:54 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:39796) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RhkZ8-0002LZ-V9 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 02 Jan 2012 11:16:51 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RhkZ7-0004xv-IH for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 02 Jan 2012 11:16:50 -0500 Original-Received: from lo.gmane.org ([80.91.229.12]:54933) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RhkZ7-0004xf-3G for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 02 Jan 2012 11:16:49 -0500 Original-Received: from list by lo.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RhkZ4-0002Gr-EQ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 02 Jan 2012 17:16:46 +0100 Original-Received: from c-76-28-40-19.hsd1.vt.comcast.net ([76.28.40.19]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Mon, 02 Jan 2012 17:16:46 +0100 Original-Received: from tzz by c-76-28-40-19.hsd1.vt.comcast.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Mon, 02 Jan 2012 17:16:46 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Mail-Followup-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-Lines: 57 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: c-76-28-40-19.hsd1.vt.comcast.net X-Face: bd.DQ~'29fIs`T_%O%C\g%6jW)yi[zuz6; d4V0`@y-~$#3P_Ng{@m+e4o<4P'#(_GJQ%TT= D}[Ep*b!\e,fBZ'j_+#"Ps?s2!4H2-Y"sx" Mail-Copies-To: never User-Agent: Gnus/5.110018 (No Gnus v0.18) Emacs/24.0.90 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:LUsUV+ugrW3Qe1tuTVn5ww71R5E= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 80.91.229.12 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:147178 Archived-At: On Mon, 2 Jan 2012 05:02:45 +0100 Juanma Barranquero wrote: JB> If we start distributing GnuTLS binaries, it's suddenly our (= JB> "someone's") work to know when a release fixes serious bugs and when JB> it does not. I stated I would do that monitoring. In any case, it's better to have the *ability* to issue updates than not to. In that context, it seems more sensible to package GnuTLS support as an ELPA package so it can be upgraded without upgrading Emacs as a whole. So perhaps we just need a versioned "gnutls-w32" ELPA package to DTRT. W32 users can choose to install it or it can be installed by default, whichever we or the distribution decides. We can do similar solutions for other platforms that need it, but I think W32 is the only one. >> AFAIK Emacs can use GnuTLS for talking to the outside world too. SMTP, >> for instance. There are ISPs (like the one I use) that offer both >> encrypted and plain login on their mail servers. JB> Of course. And then we're back to square one. Does anyone know how JB> many people *on Windows* uses Emacs to connect to the wide, wild JB> world? How many of them read e-mail from Emacs, for example? I don't JB> (I very much doubt there's any reliable statistics), and if I had to JB> bet, I'd bet on the side of few. I'd guess we have at least 100 W32 users. That number will certainly grow if Emacs can offer better foolproof connectivity. If you ever tried to set up CLI helpers for W32 Emacs network connectivity before GnuTLS came along, you know it was a big deterrent to adoption. On Mon, 02 Jan 2012 03:47:03 -0500 Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> From: Ted Zlatanov >> Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2012 18:54:56 -0500 >> >> I think nowadays it's a really good idea to include GnuTLS to encrypt >> network connections within Emacs. Unlike image libraries, opening >> network connections unencrypted or through tunneling programs can >> actually expose secret user data and introduces many unpleasant bugs and >> workarounds, *especially* on W32. I think the download size is tiny >> either way by today's standards, but I understand the bloat concern. >> Can we download and install the GnuTLS opportunistically, e.g. through >> a GNU ELPA package? EZ> Why are we talking only about Windows? Do packages of Emacs 24 EZ> development snapshots on GNU/Linux come with GnuTLS in the same EZ> package? If they do, then I agree that the Windows binaries should EZ> also include GnuTLS; but if not, I don't see why Windows should be EZ> special in this regard. We don't want to confuse users by providing EZ> functionality only on some platforms. Absolutely; my post was about GnuTLS in general but so far, W32 packaging has been the issue (which was remedied by Nicos' work, which started this thread). Mac OS X and GNU/Linux packaging for GnuTLS is not a problem. Ted