Re: GnuTLS for W32

[Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com>]

On Mon, 2 Jan 2012 05:02:45 +0100 Juanma Barranquero <lekktu@gmail.com> wrote: 

JB> If we start distributing GnuTLS binaries, it's suddenly our (=
JB> "someone's") work to know when a release fixes serious bugs and when
JB> it does not.

I stated I would do that monitoring.  In any case, it's better to have
the *ability* to issue updates than not to.  In that context, it seems
more sensible to package GnuTLS support as an ELPA package so it can be
upgraded without upgrading Emacs as a whole.  So perhaps we just need a
versioned "gnutls-w32" ELPA package to DTRT.  W32 users can choose to
install it or it can be installed by default, whichever we or the
distribution decides.  We can do similar solutions for other platforms
that need it, but I think W32 is the only one.

>> AFAIK Emacs can use GnuTLS for talking to the outside world too. SMTP,
>> for instance. There are ISPs (like the one I use) that offer both
>> encrypted and plain login on their mail servers.

JB> Of course. And then we're back to square one. Does anyone know how
JB> many people *on Windows* uses Emacs to connect to the wide, wild
JB> world? How many of them read e-mail from Emacs, for example? I don't
JB> (I very much doubt there's any reliable statistics), and if I had to
JB> bet, I'd bet on the side of few.

I'd guess we have at least 100 W32 users.  That number will certainly
grow if Emacs can offer better foolproof connectivity.  If you ever
tried to set up CLI helpers for W32 Emacs network connectivity before
GnuTLS came along, you know it was a big deterrent to adoption.

On Mon, 02 Jan 2012 03:47:03 -0500 Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote: 

>> From: Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com>
>> Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2012 18:54:56 -0500
>> 
>> I think nowadays it's a really good idea to include GnuTLS to encrypt
>> network connections within Emacs.  Unlike image libraries, opening
>> network connections unencrypted or through tunneling programs can
>> actually expose secret user data and introduces many unpleasant bugs and
>> workarounds, *especially* on W32.  I think the download size is tiny
>> either way by today's standards, but I understand the bloat concern.
>> Can we download and install the GnuTLS opportunistically, e.g. through
>> a GNU ELPA package?

EZ> Why are we talking only about Windows?  Do packages of Emacs 24
EZ> development snapshots on GNU/Linux come with GnuTLS in the same
EZ> package?  If they do, then I agree that the Windows binaries should
EZ> also include GnuTLS; but if not, I don't see why Windows should be
EZ> special in this regard.  We don't want to confuse users by providing
EZ> functionality only on some platforms.

Absolutely; my post was about GnuTLS in general but so far, W32
packaging has been the issue (which was remedied by Nicos' work, which
started this thread).  Mac OS X and GNU/Linux packaging for GnuTLS is
not a problem.

Ted