From: phillip.lord@newcastle.ac.uk (Phillip Lord)
To: Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com>
Cc: Rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com>, help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
Subject: Re: In defense of Customize [was: Trying to right-align my window on startup]
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2014 10:29:48 +0000 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <87txd57d2b.fsf@newcastle.ac.uk> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <5581e666-3500-4a30-abb2-6454e2398a01@default> (Drew Adams's message of "Tue, 14 Jan 2014 09:37:34 -0800")
Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com> writes:
>> > > But (IMHO) too many people ignore Customize, often because
>> > > they've gotten the impression somehow that it is for non-Lispers
>> > > or wimps.
>> >
>> > I just hate its UI.
>>
>> If a first year student of mine cannot distinguish data and code
>> (s)he'd get an F grade. customize does that.
>
> No, it is Emacs that does that, by not requiring (or even
> encouraging) the use of `custom-file', and by telling Customize to
> put code in your init file by default. That is a not-so-wise design
> decision about how Emacs uses Customize. It is not the fault of
> Customize if Emacs tells it to write to your init file.
I also found this problematic. Nowadays I don't really have a .emacs per
se; all it does is add ~/emacs to the load-path, and then loads a file
from there.
There used to be another bug with this -- if you launched with -q
customize would refuse to save state even if you had set custom file
elsewhere. That appears to have gone now.
>
> To tell you the truth, I never thought I'd be an apologist for
> Customize. I too used to avoid it and use only hand-coded Lisp
> for all of my customizations. And I too am no big fan of the UI
> (and I have proposed and implemented some UI enhancements). I have
> probably criticized it (in concrete terms, including bug reports)
> as much as anyone.
I use customize for things configuration that I don't want to sync
between machines, and hand-crafted lisp for everything else. But even
here customize is good, because the structure of the defcustom form
tells you as much as the documentation about how to set things.
I would like to have a "custom-setq" which set a var, checked to see
whether the types were correct wrt customize, then crashed if not. It
would be nice to use the knowledge of customize from lisp.
Phil
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2014-01-15 10:29 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 61+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
[not found] <<B67C92F68785104E8816FEEE2B44C9346F33C8FD@TEMCAS01.peinet.peinc.com>
[not found] ` <<83r48idw6z.fsf@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <<B67C92F68785104E8816FEEE2B44C9346F33C978@TEMCAS01.peinet.peinc.com>
[not found] ` <<83mwj5ekrs.fsf@gnu.org>
[not found] ` <<B67C92F68785104E8816FEEE2B44C9346F33D269@TEMCAS01.peinet.peinc.com>
[not found] ` <<28ab7799-fdc5-47c4-9ac0-f7db66771e7e@default>
[not found] ` <<83iotsdh9n.fsf@gnu.org>
2014-01-09 21:02 ` Trying to right-align my window on startup Drew Adams
2014-01-11 14:45 ` Juanma Barranquero
2014-01-11 17:35 ` poor Customize [was: Trying to right-align my window on startup] Drew Adams
[not found] ` <mailman.11630.1389461775.10748.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2014-01-13 15:11 ` jack-mac
2014-01-13 17:06 ` Drew Adams
[not found] ` <mailman.11626.1389451551.10748.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2014-01-14 9:24 ` Trying to right-align my window on startup Rusi
2014-01-14 17:37 ` In defense of Customize [was: Trying to right-align my window on startup] Drew Adams
2014-01-14 19:32 ` session.* files (was: In defense of Customize) gottlieb
2014-01-14 19:52 ` Peter Dyballa
2014-01-15 10:29 ` Phillip Lord [this message]
2014-01-15 17:28 ` In defense of Customize [was: Trying to right-align my window on startup] Drew Adams
2014-01-16 10:06 ` Phillip Lord
2014-01-16 15:33 ` Drew Adams
2014-01-14 17:53 ` Trying to right-align my window on startup Emanuel Berg
2014-01-14 17:57 ` Marcin Borkowski
[not found] ` <mailman.11925.1389722262.10748.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2014-01-14 18:15 ` Rusi
2014-01-14 18:19 ` Emanuel Berg
2014-01-15 4:44 ` Rusi
[not found] ` <mailman.11921.1389721075.10748.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2014-01-18 2:59 ` In defense of Customize [was: Trying to right-align my window on startup] Rusi
2014-01-18 4:42 ` Emanuel Berg
2014-01-18 15:31 ` Rusi
2014-01-28 15:17 ` Christoph Wedler
2014-01-28 18:35 ` Emanuel Berg
2014-01-29 10:57 ` Phillip Lord
2014-01-29 13:23 ` Stefan Monnier
2014-01-29 16:54 ` Phillip Lord
2014-01-29 18:26 ` Stefan Monnier
2014-01-30 9:59 ` Phillip Lord
[not found] ` <mailman.13090.1390993048.10748.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2014-01-29 16:52 ` Emanuel Berg
2014-01-29 17:19 ` Phillip Lord
[not found] ` <mailman.13107.1391015968.10748.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2014-01-29 18:21 ` Emanuel Berg
2014-01-29 0:47 ` Drew Adams
[not found] ` <mailman.13068.1390956492.10748.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2014-01-30 10:14 ` Christoph Wedler
2014-01-30 13:23 ` Stefan Monnier
2014-01-30 16:06 ` Drew Adams
[not found] ` <mailman.13194.1391088219.10748.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2014-01-30 16:15 ` Rusi
2014-01-30 18:44 ` Emanuel Berg
2014-01-31 9:56 ` Phillip Lord
[not found] ` <mailman.13338.1391162177.10748.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2014-01-31 12:08 ` Rusi
2014-01-31 20:41 ` Emanuel Berg
2014-01-31 20:39 ` Emanuel Berg
[not found] ` <mailman.13229.1391098001.10748.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2014-01-31 6:54 ` Rusi
2014-01-31 17:50 ` Christoph Wedler
2014-01-08 20:11 Trying to right-align my window on startup Mickey Ferguson
2014-01-08 21:01 ` Eli Zaretskii
[not found] ` <B67C92F68785104E8816FEEE2B44C9346F33C978@TEMCAS01.peinet.peinc.com>
2014-01-09 6:23 ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-01-09 20:16 ` Mickey Ferguson
2014-01-09 20:30 ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-01-09 20:32 ` Drew Adams
2014-01-09 20:36 ` Eli Zaretskii
2014-01-09 20:41 ` Marcin Borkowski
2014-01-09 21:04 ` Drew Adams
[not found] ` <mailman.11466.1389300108.10748.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2014-01-09 21:43 ` Sebastien Vauban
2014-01-09 22:23 ` Drew Adams
2014-01-10 22:31 ` Mickey Ferguson
2014-01-10 23:09 ` Drew Adams
2014-01-11 1:17 ` Mickey Ferguson
2014-01-11 3:07 ` Drew Adams
2014-01-13 23:14 ` Mickey Ferguson
2014-01-14 4:55 ` Eli Zaretskii
[not found] ` <<83k3e8dhj9.fsf@gnu.org>
2014-01-09 21:02 ` Drew Adams
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