From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Is intellisense features integration in Emacs technically possible? Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2014 15:28:10 +0900 Message-ID: <87txcw8r9h.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <1390269670.2888.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> <83zjmpf80o.fsf@gnu.org> <52DED291.60500@online.de> <83txcwfz81.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1390372243 15702 80.91.229.3 (22 Jan 2014 06:30:43 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2014 06:30:43 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Andreas =?utf-8?Q?R=C3=B6hler?= , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Jan 22 07:30:49 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1W5rKr-0005Tc-34 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 22 Jan 2014 07:30:49 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:33856 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W5rKq-0002Le-GE for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 22 Jan 2014 01:30:48 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:48312) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W5rKi-0002Kd-1D for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 22 Jan 2014 01:30:46 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W5rKb-0001qR-Rr for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 22 Jan 2014 01:30:39 -0500 Original-Received: from mgmt2.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp ([130.158.97.224]:57349) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W5rKU-0001A5-LY; Wed, 22 Jan 2014 01:30:27 -0500 Original-Received: from uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp [130.158.99.156]) by mgmt2.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B379970978; Wed, 22 Jan 2014 15:28:10 +0900 (JST) Original-Received: by uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 80458129243; Wed, 22 Jan 2014 15:28:10 +0900 (JST) In-Reply-To: <83txcwfz81.fsf@gnu.org> X-Mailer: VM undefined under 21.5 (beta34) "kale" 2a0f42961ed4 XEmacs Lucid (x86_64-unknown-linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 130.158.97.224 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:168870 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: > > Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2014 21:03:29 +0100 > > From: Andreas R=C3=B6hler > >=20 > > Bidirection is at the core of any editor - thanks a lot BTW. > > Intellisense features must come from accessing the programming > > languages itself. >=20 > Both are extremely important for a modern programmer's editor. So I > don't see the difference, really. There's a big difference. Specifically, intellisense in the abstract is basically completion, the change in UI is a SMOP, and people have shown a lot of interest in the UI. Something will happen, although I'm not sure how close it will be to Visual Studio. What's left to compare is necessary skills. Adding bidirection requires intimate knowledge of both UAX#9 and the Emacs display engine, and greatly benefits from a native knowledge of what "properly formatted Hebrew" (or Arabic) looks like. Not many folks with those qualifications, or who want to acquire them. It also may as well be done all-at-once because UAX#9 exists -- we don't need to fool around and figure out what is a good algorithm. We already have a good one, the only question is whether our implementation is correct. So it's a big job few can tackle. Adding a new language to intellisense, OTOH, is something anybody who uses the language and knows enough Elisp to write defuns in their .emacs can help with. Nor does it need to be done all-at-once, as long as the basic interface makes it easy to say "shut up and let me type" case by case (this is what annoys the hell out of me about intellisense in Japan input methods -- they're pretty bad about guessing what I'm trying to say, and they don't get out of the way smoothly -- it's like when you meet somebody in a narrow passage and you both move to the east, then to the west, then ...). Adding a new algorithm (eg, based on a full-blown C++ parser) is harder, but unnecessary to make progress.