From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Pascal J. Bourguignon" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: member returns list Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2015 04:26:14 +0200 Organization: Informatimago Message-ID: <87twr17ku1.fsf@kuiper.lan.informatimago.com> References: <87bndfauey.fsf@kuiper.lan.informatimago.com> <87wpw0e58f.fsf@robertthorpeconsulting.com> <87si6n822t.fsf@kuiper.lan.informatimago.com> <87oaha9a64.fsf@kuiper.lan.informatimago.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1441938641 9094 80.91.229.3 (11 Sep 2015 02:30:41 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2015 02:30:41 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Sep 11 04:30:34 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZaE6Z-0000iN-To for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 11 Sep 2015 04:30:24 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:53506 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZaE6Y-0002wv-M8 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 10 Sep 2015 22:30:22 -0400 X-Received: by 10.180.100.71 with SMTP id ew7mr1718392wib.0.1441938374920; Thu, 10 Sep 2015 19:26:14 -0700 (PDT) Original-Path: usenet.stanford.edu!jc2no930133lbc.0!news-out.google.com!ju9ni1774lbc.0!nntp.google.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help Original-Lines: 76 Original-X-Trace: individual.net KA1tXbeWJciCDxkZXDnTWwKL3akHhPSgLjFQDB25RRxEEQQvDQ Cancel-Lock: sha1:ZDc2NGMyY2RkMmM3YmVlZGViZGNlNTRjYWIzZmI4MDU4M2I3YmE4YQ== sha1:m2fHtDUUz4uDIqpwdNkAZAyBqrs= Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwAQMAAABtzGvEAAAABlBMVEUAAAD///+l2Z/dAAAA oElEQVR4nK3OsRHCMAwF0O8YQufUNIQRGIAja9CxSA55AxZgFO4coMgYrEDDQZWPIlNAjwq9 033pbOBPtbXuB6PKNBn5gZkhGa86Z4x2wE67O+06WxGD/HCOGR0deY3f9Ijwwt7rNGNf6Oac l/GuZTF1wFGKiYYHKSFAkjIo1b6sCYS1sVmFhhhahKQssRjRT90ITWUk6vvK3RsPGs+M1RuR mV+hO/VvFAAAAABJRU5ErkJggg== X-Accept-Language: fr, es, en User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3 (gnu/linux) Original-Xref: usenet.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:214859 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:107144 Archived-At: Emanuel Berg writes: > "Pascal J. Bourguignon" > writes: > >>> Why don't you do a Lisp OS with Lisp-only software? >> >> Time. Money. > > OK, what I meant was actually again why Lisp is so > marginalized. Not only in "industry" (yuk, that is > a stupid word) but also in the systems we use every > day. Every program I ever use is written in C (except > for Emacs which is C and Lisp). It's up to you to choose programs written in lisp instead. For example, instead of GNU emacs you could use Hemlock (notably in Clozure CL.app on MacOSX, it's nicely integrated). Of course, it doesn't benefit of all the GNU emacs third-party packages, but you have an emacs with the same basic editing features, all written in Common Lisp from the bottom up (well, apart from a small kernel in ccl written in C, and from UI stuff in Hemlock written in CL but calling out to the Objective-C cocoa framework). > Do you think the association between C and Unix, strong as it may, is > enough to explain this? Historically, definitively. But for a long time now, availability of implementations and computing power and memory size of unix machines has not justified the use of C (or C++) at all for applications. And people also realize that when they created the P languages, perl, php, python and rupy^W ruby. I would use C only to write a device driver. > The only big program which I use that I can think of which is > Lisp-only is Gnus which is a part of Emacs. > But: Keeping the Linux kernel (which is in C) and then > starting to replace the typical components in a Unix > or Linux system (which are all in C) with ditto in > Lisp, I don't see the purpose of that. This is however the approach taken by Android, and they obtain a system that is quite different from a unix system. The only thing unix in Android, is the use of the linux kernel for the drivers, and for the implementation of sandboxes. Android "user accounts" whatever that means, are not unix account (unix account on Android actually correspond more to Android applications, than to human users). > What would be interesting is a system that is Lispic, not just another > Unix only written in Lisp, which would be stupid at best. I already mentionned Mezzano. If you want to write your own, you can use Movitz CL, or of course, build on Mezzano. > Do you have hyperlinks to a bootable DVD or USB? No, it's no batteries included. You get the sources from the github and do it yourself. https://github.com/froggey/Mezzano https://common-lisp.net/project/movitz/ https://github.com/PuercoPop/Movitz -- __Pascal Bourguignon__ http://www.informatimago.com/ “The factory of the future will have only two employees, a man and a dog. The man will be there to feed the dog. The dog will be there to keep the man from touching the equipment.” -- Carl Bass CEO Autodesk