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From: Oleh Krehel <ohwoeowho@gmail.com>
To: "Przemysław Wojnowski" <esperanto@cumego.com>
Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Emacs rewrite in a maintainable language
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 13:33:51 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <87twptheg0.fsf@gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <874mhtra55.fsf@gnu.org> (Tassilo Horn's message of "Wed, 14 Oct 2015 12:56:38 +0200")

Tassilo Horn <tsdh@gnu.org> writes:

> Przemysław Wojnowski <esperanto@cumego.com> writes:
>
>>>> I don't. I have no problem spending time to replace "char const *"
>>>> into "const char *". Browsing through a code base that I want to get
>>>> familiar with and fixing a small annoyance doesn't sound bad to me.
>>>
>>> Pointless churn. Find something that fixes an bug, or adds a useful
>>> new feature, and work on that. You will find it more rewarding, and
>>> other users and developers will find your contribution more helpful.
>>
>> Refactorings that increase maintainability (like this one) are very
>> useful to other developers.
>>
>> Such changes, even small, accumulate towards something that can be
>> called a "maintainable system".  In (wannabe) healthy systems it is
>> everyday practice.
>
> OTOH, they reduce the helpfulness version control offers to new and old
> developers.  I.e., it's good when "git blame" shows you the last changes
> which actually changed the code, and switching "char const *" to "const
> char *" or vice versa are no real changes.

I've seen this excuse before. Doesn't it mean that there's a flaw in the
"git blame" workflow rather than in the refactoring commits?  Besides,
"git blame" provides a way to specify a range of revisions that you're
interested in.

Personally, looking through the revision history in order to understand
code is a last resort for me. The code should be written and documented
well enough to be understandable at the current revision. This is
further magnified by the fact that we release source tarballs, which
should be self-containing.

> In the same vein, it's of course good to have one consistent indentation
> style, one consistent style of setting braces, one consistent style of
> naming variables, etc.  But I'd suggest to clean up the non-conforming
> parts only when you do significant changes in that area anyhow.

You mean:

    /* TODO: change "char const *" to "const char *" when an opportunity arises
      to change foo */
    void foo (char const *bar);

This doesn't sound like a sustainable and healthy approach.

In the same vein, concerning the matter of one consistent indentation
style, on occasion I've received complaints of producing too large
whitespace diffs when changing Elisp functions. On those occasions I
had to twist myself into never using `indent-sexp' and inserting the
appropriate amount of mixed tabs and spaces with "C-q". It wasn't fun.

    Oleh



  parent reply	other threads:[~2015-10-14 11:33 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 250+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2015-10-11  8:11 Emacs rewrite in a maintainable language Przemysław Wojnowski
2015-10-11  8:17 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-11 22:02   ` Marcin Borkowski
2015-10-11 22:14     ` John Wiegley
2015-10-11 22:37       ` Óscar Fuentes
2015-10-11 22:37       ` Marcin Borkowski
2015-10-11 22:49         ` John Wiegley
2015-10-11 22:51         ` Óscar Fuentes
2015-10-11 23:12         ` Drew Adams
2015-10-12  2:43     ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-12 15:35       ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-12 21:30         ` Daniel Colascione
2015-10-12 20:01     ` Richard Stallman
2015-10-11  8:54 ` Alexis
2015-10-11 10:53   ` Przemysław Wojnowski
2015-10-11 11:23 ` Thomas Koch
2015-10-11 13:11   ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-10-11 13:36     ` David Kastrup
2015-10-11 13:39       ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-10-11 13:55         ` David Kastrup
2015-10-11 14:03           ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-10-11 12:52 ` Daniel Colascione
2015-10-11 12:59 ` Fabrice Popineau
2015-10-11 17:25 ` John Wiegley
2015-10-11 18:32   ` Óscar Fuentes
2015-10-11 19:14     ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-11 19:43       ` Óscar Fuentes
2015-10-11 19:53         ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-11 20:13           ` Óscar Fuentes
2015-10-12  2:33             ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-12  3:59               ` Paul Eggert
2015-10-12  8:12                 ` Steinar Bang
2015-10-12  9:36                   ` Marcin Borkowski
2015-10-12 10:20                     ` David Kastrup
2015-10-12 12:23               ` Óscar Fuentes
2015-10-12 16:08                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-12 20:00         ` Richard Stallman
2015-10-13  2:36           ` Rustom Mody
2015-10-12 10:56       ` Michael Heerdegen
2015-10-11 21:52     ` John Wiegley
2015-10-12  7:14       ` David Kastrup
2015-10-12 12:48     ` Oleh Krehel
2015-10-12 13:22       ` Óscar Fuentes
2015-10-12 14:18         ` Oleh Krehel
2015-10-12 15:04           ` David Kastrup
2015-10-12 18:24         ` John Wiegley
2015-10-12 19:21           ` Óscar Fuentes
2015-10-12 19:39             ` John Wiegley
2015-10-12 19:46               ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-12 19:58                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-12 20:11                   ` John Wiegley
2015-10-12 20:42                     ` Marcin Borkowski
2015-10-12 20:46                     ` Óscar Fuentes
2015-10-13 14:57                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-13 16:22                       ` John Wiegley
2015-10-13 16:40                         ` Drew Adams
2015-10-13 16:49                           ` John Wiegley
2015-10-12 20:40               ` Drew Adams
2015-10-13  4:18                 ` John Wiegley
2015-10-13  6:00                   ` immerrr again
2015-10-13 14:59                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-13  1:12               ` Óscar Fuentes
2015-10-13 10:01               ` David Kastrup
2015-10-13 15:12                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-13 15:20                   ` David Kastrup
2015-10-14 15:04                     ` Chris Patti
2015-10-14 15:34                       ` Jay Belanger
2015-10-16 12:25                   ` Guile-Emacs Ludovic Courtès
2015-10-16 12:03                 ` Emacs rewrite in a maintainable language Ludovic Courtès
2015-10-16 13:30                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-16 14:55                     ` Wolfgang Jenkner
2015-10-16 15:14                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-16 15:25                     ` Ludovic Courtès
2015-10-16 15:51                       ` David Kastrup
2015-10-16 14:29                   ` David Kastrup
2015-10-16 15:08                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-16 15:28                       ` David Kastrup
2015-10-16 16:05                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-16 15:31                       ` Ludovic Courtès
2015-10-16 16:11                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-16 19:34                           ` Przemysław Wojnowski
2015-10-16 19:51                             ` David Kastrup
2015-10-16 19:52                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-16 20:51                           ` Ludovic Courtès
2015-10-17  5:27                             ` David Kastrup
2015-10-17  7:20                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-17  9:44                               ` Ludovic Courtès
2015-10-17 10:24                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-18 10:22                                   ` Ludovic Courtès
2015-10-18 11:33                                     ` David Kastrup
2015-10-18 12:54                                       ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-18 13:17                                         ` David Kastrup
2015-10-18 14:40                                           ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-18 15:31                                             ` David Kastrup
2015-10-18 16:19                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-18 16:37                                           ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-18 16:44                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-18 17:06                                               ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-18 17:11                                                 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-18 17:36                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-18 17:52                                                   ` John Wiegley
2015-10-18 18:23                                                     ` Daniel Colascione
2015-10-18 18:35                                                       ` David Kastrup
2015-10-18 18:53                                                         ` Daniel Colascione
2015-10-18 19:03                                                           ` David Kastrup
2015-10-18 19:13                                                           ` Paul Eggert
2015-10-18 19:35                                                           ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-18 19:49                                                             ` Daniel Colascione
2015-10-19  7:59                                                               ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-19 10:50                                                                 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-10-19 10:59                                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-19 11:31                                                                     ` David Kastrup
2015-10-19 12:04                                                                       ` David Kastrup
2015-10-19 11:24                                                                   ` David Kastrup
2015-10-20  4:18                                                                     ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-10-20  7:36                                                                       ` David Kastrup
2015-10-20 10:17                                                                         ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-10-19 12:26                                                                   ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-19 12:53                                                                     ` David Kastrup
2015-10-19 17:43                                                                   ` Tom Tromey
2015-10-19 18:06                                                                     ` David Kastrup
2015-10-20  2:46                                                                       ` Tom Tromey
2015-10-19  8:46                                                               ` David Kastrup
2015-10-19  9:39                                                                 ` Przemysław Wojnowski
2015-10-19  5:33                                                           ` Richard Stallman
2015-10-26 11:01                                                             ` Alexis
2015-10-18 19:16                                                       ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-18 22:38                                                     ` Nicolas Petton
2015-10-20  7:34                                                       ` John Wiegley
2015-10-18 16:40                                           ` John Wiegley
2015-10-18 16:56                                             ` David Kastrup
2015-10-18 17:46                                               ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-10-19  7:45                                             ` Gian Uberto Lauri
2015-10-17 15:38                                 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-17 16:25                                   ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-17 16:43                                     ` David Kastrup
2015-10-17 17:00                                       ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-17 16:48                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-17 17:03                                       ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-17 17:08                                         ` David Kastrup
2015-10-17 17:10                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-17 18:31                                           ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-10-17 17:04                                     ` David Kastrup
2015-10-17 17:32                                       ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-17 17:42                                         ` David Kastrup
2015-10-17 18:34                                           ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-17 19:15                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-17 21:22                                               ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-18  0:23                                                 ` John Wiegley
2015-10-18 15:53                           ` Richard Stallman
2015-10-18 16:58               ` Tom Tromey
2015-10-18 17:40                 ` John Wiegley
2015-10-18 19:40                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-18 20:47                     ` David Kastrup
2015-10-19  3:55                   ` Tom Tromey
2015-10-20  7:33                     ` John Wiegley
2015-10-12 19:43             ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-13  8:27               ` Przemysław Wojnowski
2015-10-13  8:52                 ` Gian Uberto Lauri
2015-10-13 10:19                 ` Tassilo Horn
2015-10-13 15:14                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-13 19:45                     ` Tassilo Horn
2015-10-13 15:05                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-13 16:09                   ` John Wiegley
2015-10-13 20:43                   ` Przemysław Wojnowski
2015-10-13 16:06                 ` John Wiegley
2015-10-13 20:20                   ` Przemysław Wojnowski
2015-10-13 21:22                     ` emacs IDE features (was: Emacs rewrite in a maintainable language) Andrés Ramírez
2015-10-13 22:13                       ` emacs IDE features John Wiegley
2015-10-14 11:11                         ` Phillip Lord
2015-10-16 23:13                           ` John Wiegley
2015-10-17  7:40                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-17 23:51                               ` John Wiegley
2015-10-18  0:48                                 ` Sacha Chua
2015-10-18  2:34                                   ` Xue Fuqiao
2015-10-18 17:05                                     ` Sacha Chua
2015-10-18 17:31                                       ` John Wiegley
2015-10-18 16:21                                   ` John Wiegley
2015-10-19 16:37                                   ` Christopher Allan Webber
2015-10-18 16:47                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-18 17:30                                   ` John Wiegley
2015-10-19 10:30                             ` Phillip Lord
2015-10-20  6:56                               ` John Wiegley
2015-10-13 22:10                     ` Emacs rewrite in a maintainable language John Wiegley
2015-10-12 23:00             ` Camm Maguire
2015-10-13  1:38               ` Alexis
2015-10-13  1:40                 ` Daniel Colascione
2015-10-13 23:34             ` Richard Stallman
2015-10-13 23:55               ` John Wiegley
2015-10-13  5:28           ` Ken Raeburn
2015-10-13  5:39             ` John Wiegley
2015-10-13 10:13               ` David Kastrup
2015-10-14  1:43                 ` Daniel Colascione
2015-10-13  6:49             ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-10-12 13:50       ` David Kastrup
2015-10-12 15:17         ` Oleh Krehel
2015-10-12 15:35           ` David Kastrup
2015-10-12 16:29           ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-12 22:39           ` Paul Eggert
2015-10-13 11:27             ` Oleh Krehel
2015-10-13 11:46               ` Alan Mackenzie
2015-10-13 12:02                 ` Oleh Krehel
2015-10-13 12:21                   ` Alan Mackenzie
2015-10-13 12:22                   ` Mathieu Lirzin
2015-10-13 13:52                     ` John Yates
2015-10-13 14:30                       ` David Kastrup
2015-10-13 16:26                         ` Andreas Schwab
2015-10-13 16:40                           ` John Wiegley
2015-10-13 14:38                       ` Oleh Krehel
2015-10-13 13:06                   ` Sergey Organov
2015-10-13 14:19                     ` Artur Malabarba
2015-10-13 14:39                       ` David Kastrup
2015-10-13 15:21                         ` Artur Malabarba
2015-10-13 15:53                           ` David Kastrup
2015-10-13 16:09                             ` Oleh Krehel
2015-10-13 16:23                               ` David Kastrup
2015-10-13 16:31                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-13 16:38                                 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-13 15:21                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-13 15:42                   ` David Kastrup
2015-10-13 15:32               ` Paul Eggert
2015-10-13 16:13                 ` Oleh Krehel
2015-10-13 21:02                   ` Andy Moreton
2015-10-14  8:15                     ` Oleh Krehel
2015-10-14 13:28                       ` Andy Moreton
2015-10-14 16:18                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-14 10:22                     ` Przemysław Wojnowski
2015-10-14 10:56                       ` Tassilo Horn
2015-10-14 11:14                         ` Przemysław Wojnowski
2015-10-14 11:33                         ` Oleh Krehel [this message]
2015-10-14 12:12                           ` Tassilo Horn
2015-10-14 11:46                         ` David Kastrup
2015-10-14 12:29                           ` Tassilo Horn
2015-10-14 11:21                     ` Mathieu Lirzin
2015-10-14 16:05                     ` John Wiegley
2015-10-13 16:13               ` John Wiegley
2015-10-12 15:09       ` Paul Eggert
2015-10-12 15:24         ` David Kastrup
2015-10-12 15:24         ` Oleh Krehel
2015-10-12 16:31           ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-12 17:20         ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-10-13 12:02           ` Marcus Harnisch
2015-10-13 23:38             ` Richard Stallman
2015-10-14  1:46             ` Daniel Colascione
2015-10-14 13:08               ` Marcus Harnisch
2015-10-12 16:18       ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-12 17:47         ` Steinar Bang
2015-10-12 17:59           ` David Kastrup
2015-10-12 21:28       ` Daniel Colascione
2015-10-11 18:36   ` Przemysław Wojnowski

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