From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Nikolaus Rath Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Is it time to drop ChangeLogs? Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2016 21:00:50 -0800 Message-ID: <87twkhef7h.fsf@vostro.rath.org> References: <56BE7E37.3090708@cs.ucla.edu> <4hd1rw1ubr.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <83vb50wxhv.fsf@gnu.org> <87y49vz4cg.fsf@acer.localhost.com> <64a52598-ad53-498c-993c-67d7827dbdfc@default> <838u1uuuau.fsf@gnu.org> <878u1um2xl.fsf@thinkpad.rath.org> <83egbmt2on.fsf@gnu.org> <87vb4ykn17.fsf@thinkpad.rath.org> <838u1ut22y.fsf@gnu.org> <87pov6kmfe.fsf@thinkpad.rath.org> <8360wxtz9r.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1457413288 9470 80.91.229.3 (8 Mar 2016 05:01:28 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2016 05:01:28 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Mar 08 06:01:17 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ad9lh-000067-Uk for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 08 Mar 2016 06:01:14 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:60337 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ad9ld-0000wa-Tu for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 08 Mar 2016 00:01:09 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:34436) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ad9lQ-0000wE-8M for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 08 Mar 2016 00:00:57 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ad9lN-0006Uj-Nm for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 08 Mar 2016 00:00:56 -0500 Original-Received: from out5-smtp.messagingengine.com ([66.111.4.29]:35748) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ad9lN-0006UU-Kl for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 08 Mar 2016 00:00:53 -0500 Original-Received: from compute1.internal (compute1.nyi.internal [10.202.2.41]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 503E920C8F for ; Tue, 8 Mar 2016 00:00:52 -0500 (EST) Original-Received: from frontend1 ([10.202.2.160]) by compute1.internal (MEProxy); Tue, 08 Mar 2016 00:00:52 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-sasl-enc:x-sasl-enc; s=smtpout; bh=WBArB7ZdQNiXiZO XIWUxWl8Kax8=; b=ism8yGoyjbZICTjNYaGg6jX7qnzRY27Wy69uesTvxpJLRYl yOFkeGDfaPK9S8y0wFPX7p7NL/WpJKmEKXl+azHZWDJooWbXCE5rCSm3spCbAlXf vqcAmI2DAvfvvV36xb/4vo3t5fwodK0SmVb9g5uLGkVI+ycBUJw+vQTtz138= X-Sasl-enc: OG/tjh0Fr0W/NvRSK8IGT+59WXxJm3lvbfRVO755+JHA 1457413252 Original-Received: from ebox.rath.org (ebox.rath.org [45.79.69.51]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 09CB0C00013; Tue, 8 Mar 2016 00:00:52 -0500 (EST) Original-Received: from vostro.rath.org (vostro [192.168.12.4]) by ebox.rath.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5B9F620C53F; Tue, 8 Mar 2016 05:00:51 +0000 (UTC) Original-Received: by vostro.rath.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 1AE91F402FC; Mon, 7 Mar 2016 21:00:51 -0800 (PST) Mail-Copies-To: never Mail-Followup-To: Eli Zaretskii , emacs-devel@gnu.org In-Reply-To: <8360wxtz9r.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Tue, 08 Mar 2016 05:38:24 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.130014 (Ma Gnus v0.14) Emacs/24.4 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 66.111.4.29 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:201125 Archived-At: On Mar 08 2016, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> From: Nikolaus Rath >> Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org >> Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2016 13:28:21 -0800 >>=20 >> Asking me to walk three times around my chair before making the commit >> is also a simple request that's easily accomplished. That doesn't make >> it any less astonishing. There is just no apparent good reason for this >> duplication. Thus it astonishes. > > The reasons exist, and has been described. You may not agree with > them, perhaps due to different experience, but that doesn't mean they > aren't valid. Yeah, but what exactly is your point here? I was pointing out that this practice is astonishing for new contributors. You didn't understand why, so I explained that it's astonishing because to a new contributor it seems pointless. Now you assert that there are good reasons for it, but that really doesn't change that, to new contributors, it appears pointless and is astonishing. The only way to change that is probably to come up with a well-written, concise summary of these reasons and include it whenever a submitted patch has to be refused due to a missing changelog entry. >>> You didn't read what I wrote about the current system. If we stop >>> producing ChangeLog files, there will be no reason for having detailed >>> enough commit log messages, and soon enough there will be no >>> summaries. >>=20 >> I don't see how one follows from the other. Why isn't whatever measure >> you are currently take to ensure detailed ChangeLog files equally >> suitable to ensure detailed commit messages? > > Because if we continue going the way we do, we are sending a very > specific message to the future contributors. Sorry, I still don't follow your reasoning. I still consider myself a potential contributor (I didn't contribute much beyond that first little foray), and not requiring me to copy my commit message into the ChangeLog is not going to affect the quality of the commit measures in any way. The only "message" that I get from this is "Great, sending patches for Emacs doesn't require me to do a copy & paste anymore". Best, -Nikolaus --=20 GPG encrypted emails preferred. Key id: 0xD113FCAC3C4E599F Fingerprint: ED31 791B 2C5C 1613 AF38 8B8A D113 FCAC 3C4E 599F =C2=BBTime flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a Banana.=C2= =AB