From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Is it time to drop ChangeLogs? Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2016 13:16:24 +0100 Message-ID: <87twg05nqf.fsf@russet.org.uk> References: <56BE7E37.3090708@cs.ucla.edu> <4hd1rw1ubr.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <83vb50wxhv.fsf@gnu.org> <87y49vz4cg.fsf@acer.localhost.com> <87twg2g86g.fsf@lifelogs.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1467980256 21302 80.91.229.3 (8 Jul 2016 12:17:36 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2016 12:17:36 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Ted Zlatanov , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Richard Stallman Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Jul 08 14:17:28 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1bLUij-0008AW-PL for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 08 Jul 2016 14:17:25 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:45365 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bLUif-0004PB-Ud for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 08 Jul 2016 08:17:21 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:50191) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bLUiZ-0004Oq-BL for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Jul 2016 08:17:16 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bLUiX-0000AA-VA for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 08 Jul 2016 08:17:14 -0400 Original-Received: from cloud103.planethippo.com ([31.216.48.48]:51961) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bLUiR-0008To-7e; Fri, 08 Jul 2016 08:17:07 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=russet.org.uk; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID: In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From; bh=wobDreJDiKMG60WGNIKeIGMtfg4IDLVdDFh9JEe4zVk=; b=amlKzXcE+K0ZQGcvZkNpGndyID U7HNkJpGsTeZSePwPO+NVmr+mN4IUrDa8BdyvqvDp2TfCKwL9qHwclpMIpOZemI52QHNDmJHd80Mq XT1tFNyD3T3cGWBBvqG4Itrq4M7hkIylChxuK0DplPrPvPS8gLfj+oAqXyo6ONvH7XeVfNZs5HACT 5w3XefKScGQxehaEdshAXv/b7J/Ih2HVN10NeHfadUJNxi0NHFABlB6TJ5MSPLXxe5b//3rvp6qPV CGkWMcYRKPK1HU/9CI7ylSdtsB8XBe0tIWhqd3OGS/rEYCh9wRa+SD3DiE9un6nJP/AWpntHSauBa iaAr1uzg==; Original-Received: from janus-nat-128-240-225-60.ncl.ac.uk ([128.240.225.60]:33536 helo=russet.org.uk) by cloud103.planethippo.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.86_1) (envelope-from ) id 1bLUhl-0044al-2c; Fri, 08 Jul 2016 13:16:25 +0100 In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Thu, 07 Jul 2016 17:56:01 -0400") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.95 (gnu/linux) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cloud103.planethippo.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - russet.org.uk X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cloud103.planethippo.com: authenticated_id: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Authenticated-Sender: cloud103.planethippo.com: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 31.216.48.48 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:205423 Archived-At: Richard Stallman writes: > The vast > > majority of other software projects don't use them. > > Are you saying that most projects do not keep track of which functions > are changed in each commit? Yes, or at least not directly in the commit log. > How can maintainers figure out how to solve problems without detailed > log records to show them which previous changes they need to study? They use the version control system. This provides different information from the changelogs, of course. Worse in some cases, but better in others. A function that is renamed, for example, but stays in the same place in the file is better tracked by VC than a changelog. > That "vast majority" -- how long have those projects been going? GNU > Emacs was first released over 30 years ago. The vast majority are younger than Emacs, given that it's older than most. Phil