From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Marcin Borkowski Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: want a file format easily edited and read by emacs that allows (multiple) pictures to be included Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2017 17:05:36 +0100 Message-ID: <87tvx55fe7.fsf@mbork.pl> References: <20171204215223.GB1723@tuxteam.de> <86609mduhp.fsf@zoho.com> <20171204221250.GF1723@tuxteam.de> <86o9nddd7i.fsf@zoho.com> <20171205080817.GA21102@tuxteam.de> <86vahlbmh1.fsf@zoho.com> <20171205085318.GA22742@tuxteam.de> <86mv2xbj4q.fsf@zoho.com> <20171205100343.GD22742@tuxteam.de> <86efo9bec7.fsf@zoho.com> <20171205115116.GJ22742@tuxteam.de> <861sk9b87p.fsf@zoho.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1512489993 6623 195.159.176.226 (5 Dec 2017 16:06:33 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2017 16:06:33 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: mu4e 0.9.19; emacs 27.0.50 Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org To: Emanuel Berg Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Dec 05 17:06:27 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eMFjk-0001Jq-Pr for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 05 Dec 2017 17:06:24 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:50739 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eMFjr-0004L7-So for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 05 Dec 2017 11:06:31 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:52770) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eMFj9-0004Js-Ip for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 05 Dec 2017 11:05:48 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eMFj6-0004C9-1h for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 05 Dec 2017 11:05:47 -0500 Original-Received: from mail.mojserwer.eu ([195.110.48.8]:56291) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eMFj5-0004Bs-Mw for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 05 Dec 2017 11:05:43 -0500 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.mojserwer.eu (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6BF0E67D3; Tue, 5 Dec 2017 17:05:39 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at mail.mojserwer.eu Original-Received: from mail.mojserwer.eu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.mojserwer.eu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0Ny0buE94loP; Tue, 5 Dec 2017 17:05:37 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from localhost (unknown [83.13.149.242]) by mail.mojserwer.eu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id F052EE62E1; Tue, 5 Dec 2017 17:05:36 +0100 (CET) In-reply-to: <861sk9b87p.fsf@zoho.com> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 195.110.48.8 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:115233 Archived-At: On 2017-12-05, at 14:44, Emanuel Berg wrote: > tom=C3=A1s wrote: > >>> So it *is* a tool, an IDE if you will, to >>> generate data into different formats. OK, no >>> further questions. >> >> It's more... and less. For example I have >> a diary where I keep the things I've done > > I would just use a plain text buffer for that. Then you wouldn't have things like sparse trees or org-capture. >>> PS. No wonder it was so difficult to find an >>> example what good actually ever came out of >>> it :) >> >> No. It's because you seem to be blind on some >> eye. That may be just because you don't miss >> what Org might bring to you, and that would >> be OK. > > I have yet to see the one thing it can do for > me that I don't already have. If it can glue > plain text, HTML, LaTeX/PDF and more together, > and provide tools and shortcuts to produce and > convert between formats, this is what I would > call an IDE and I'm not into that as I've yet > to see such a system that does not reduce the > degree of precision and intimacy with which > I can solve such issues directly by > manipulating the material first hand. All such > in-between layers, in my experience, only makes > for fiddling with the IDE, trying to figure out > how to make it do what you want, instead of > fiddling with the material itself which is the > thing and the activity that appeals to me. Me and others mentioned that Org is much more than an authoring tool, so let's concentrate on this aspect alone now. I agree that Org is usually not the best choice if you happen to know LaTeX. OTOH, how often do you collaborate (as in: co-author papers/books) with people who don't speak (La)TeX? Also, one of the nice things about Org-mode exporter (even excluding other Org features, which are more important to me) is that it is relatively easy to extend it. I used that to create educational materials with tests, exportable to HTML+JS (where they were interactive) or LaTeX (where they were printable as a "student" version (no answers) or "teacher" version (with answers)). Do that in LaTeX (I mean, with the HTML+JS part). Good luck. (Probably possible, but _a lot_ of work.) Also, certain aspects of editing are much more enjoyable in Org than in LaTeX (even with AUCTeX). Think source code blocks vs. verbatim, rearranging the structure or embedding todo keywords (i.e., marking chapters/sections as done or needing further work). Also, editing tables in LaTeX syntax is a real pain in the neck (as opposed to Org tables). Also, as I have recently mentioned on my blog, you have radio targets, which would be extremely difficult to do in LaTeX (basically only possible in LuaLaTeX, at least in a sane way) and impossible to do in pure HTML (doable with JS, of course, if that's your thing). And by the way, I think that LaTeX cannot do what my humble snippet does if the file in question is binary. (You'd need LuaLaTeX for that, and I think this is a nice exercise. It's a pity I didn't have that idea when my friend, who wrote a book on LuaLaTeX, asked me about possible use examples.) * * * I would suggest resisting the temptation to form opinions without spending a few minutes on research first. Best, -- Marcin Borkowski