From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Ingo Lohmar Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [Emacs-diffs] scratch/widen-less a4ba846: Replace prog-widen with consolidating widen calls Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2017 22:08:56 +0100 Message-ID: <87tvx4naqf.fsf@acer.localhost.com> References: <20171129233237.27462.23351@vcs0.savannah.gnu.org> <1e542021-e389-cca4-6acd-349efddb2652@yandex.ru> <20171201223529.GG3840@ACM> <4a94ec5c-efdd-50f1-ff4d-277f5f45c2df@yandex.ru> <83lgil1qme.fsf@gnu.org> <83d13x1j2s.fsf@gnu.org> <34abea95-c7f7-e8fa-8407-8c2fd2a4cfe1@yandex.ru> <83y3mkzw1n.fsf@gnu.org> <83mv2zzv7z.fsf@gnu.org> <83r2saxyj1.fsf@gnu.org> <83efoaxv0c.fsf@gnu.org> <57382399-5efa-655f-e374-fbe1ef9d89aa@yandex.ru> <27732BB8-B3B7-4489-963E-A09333026A8E@gnu.org> <394bc7ba-76d7-229e-c45b-dc1c8bc86b22@yandex.ru> <12a94323-35a2-49e3-30fa-8b4c5042f581@yandex.ru> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1512508203 15684 195.159.176.226 (5 Dec 2017 21:10:03 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2017 21:10:03 +0000 (UTC) To: Eli Zaretskii , emacs-devel@gnu.org, Dmitry Gutov , Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Dec 05 22:09:52 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eMKTO-0003at-3u for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 05 Dec 2017 22:09:50 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:52078 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eMKTV-0001oP-8D for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 05 Dec 2017 16:09:57 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:53265) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eMKSe-0001oK-A6 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 05 Dec 2017 16:09:05 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eMKSd-0005ol-Ee for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 05 Dec 2017 16:09:04 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-wm0-x233.google.com ([2a00:1450:400c:c09::233]:46778) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eMKSZ-0005mY-OJ; Tue, 05 Dec 2017 16:08:59 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-wm0-x233.google.com with SMTP id r78so3781437wme.5; Tue, 05 Dec 2017 13:08:59 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:subject:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:mime-version; bh=blP9gW9PeuQ2bDjonF+KBPLW2Fu2f9kgW+21QwrBByo=; b=Zb+KIfhFS9nkY7FWjiZcsAOxdUghi2bfxWXLxeAhfQG+mXvAro63saUkxYnxDvsVJm oqlPE5LjsaaA87fYs/PeeoJuHCoeqZYIF4utVolJSFbDSn7bwKf3VOTSxKRB2aHpz+T2 0jfAfNEDTj0ndU2ymkLu9Kj/EGHbPWpgMWGxaAeugEihWnOkmoOZQkWT5wum4p1qgy0q vfmKTAJPmVY/uYhAxnn15JPSemcX7e5OVIUtedSJF0e2B1IpIbZmro14tr/2SRSzsY7W LRejSY8CHS9hMq0nmuw1eLHfgkKBfHRyi93z3mwGDI1lU33zEB94iYX1M0sOoM1whtWt c+RQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:mime-version; bh=blP9gW9PeuQ2bDjonF+KBPLW2Fu2f9kgW+21QwrBByo=; b=r17PyIyrk95AbrezeizIud7ktXY99bwHg1/BWib3XQrejMjFY/JsuJXg/Ge2yQY3CB KiCtWrCtmiemOvi2fTSPBq8P0Xq/ZTpkwq5o2Tl3Ipy8UQMTcL/2g4slVaIa8T4V2OMu FppJYJi7s6UFeR0piwv1ILjX7JuV//ib8eAC3dcGcOMacrtH3Hqke1ZtSE9BrwMQL54g 3SK6nzNJEqcgl0dCamRC/HEBMRsvvQFvREjFRMru7tiofCcSsj8n98X9AFj7sh6s9n1T iQKxKASMDP0pkDL5lrXQcOLKIposEfZm2vmLUswFz7ykXXwHPxzjs66+2L8F/nUdfb0N guAw== X-Gm-Message-State: AKGB3mLFbuSyB3lvSaEIILStqRMzXVnTduv3x+aNopnxVAs4QaSls2Em UxSz9h/C8XajuolSUxfPHfBgdA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMYLg14An5CIytCtVXQg2t4RrSelDekORawIZ/cNCvT0sRj2Pu9xBrdHVI6ZV1t3atcGIewIEg== X-Received: by 10.80.186.18 with SMTP id g18mr6363123edc.206.1512508138182; Tue, 05 Dec 2017 13:08:58 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from localhost (xdsl-78-35-235-225.netcologne.de. [78.35.235.225]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id a63sm528118ede.79.2017.12.05.13.08.56 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Tue, 05 Dec 2017 13:08:56 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2a00:1450:400c:c09::233 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:220751 Archived-At: On Tue, Dec 05 2017 20:48 (+0000), Eli Zaretskii wrote: > To make myself clear: I'd like to see your changes land in a way that as much as possible doesn't remove prog-indentation-context except where there's a clear and present contradiction. Previously I dabbled with mmm-mode and even maintained an unpublished fork to fix some shortcomings. Therefore I followed this and the related threads with quite some interest. Apologies if I misunderstood or if this is just noise (in which case simply ignore my message), but I have only seen this point briefly raised in passing, and it appears to be very important: 1. I gathered that from what is known now, prog-indentation-context cannot provide all that which multiple major mode frameworks need/want from Emacs core. 2. Also, it is not orthogonal, but rather incompatible with all other proposals (be they concrete or vague) discussed thus far. So if we really want to facilitate mmm-like frameworks (which is wonderful and surely a great thing to do), prog-indentation-context will have to be removed whenever that happens. Since it's not in any released version yet, it seems obvious to me that it should be removed right now, or else it will be "in the wild". And then it will be much more awkward to remove it in the next release (and I would assume that you will strongly object to removing it then). What am I missing here?