Lowercase keywords in 9.2?

Lowercase keywords in 9.2?

[Carlos Pita]

Hi all,

I noticed that the default expansions for org-tempo in 9.2 are
lowercase. I think they followed the uppercase informal convention
before, didn't they? Is this implying that now lowercase is preferred?

Regards
--
Carlos

Re: Lowercase keywords in 9.2?

[Carlos Pita]

> before, didn't they? Is this implying that now lowercase is preferred?

I dug this up from the repo:

   org-element: Prefer lower case letters for blocks and keywords

   https://code.orgmode.org/bzg/org-mode/commit/13424336a6f30c50952d291e7a82906c1210daf0

So the answer is yes. Also the begin/end pairs are lowercase hardcoded
in org-tempo.el.

This is a problem for available (ya)snippet databases. I've reported
it in https://github.com/AndreaCrotti/yasnippet-snippets/issues/303,
requesting an update. But I guess people will prefer uppercase for a
time so I'm now sure how should they should cope with the transition.

Best regards
--
Carlos

>
> Regards
> --
> Carlos

Re: Lowercase keywords in 9.2?

[Martin Alsinet]

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Carlos

Here are two previous threads about the subject:

   - Last month:
   http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-orgmode/2019-01/msg00349.html
   - A year ago:
   http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-orgmode/2018-01/msg00425.html

Regards

On Tue, Feb 12, 2019 at 9:51 AM Carlos Pita <carlosjosepita@gmail.com>
wrote:

> > before, didn't they? Is this implying that now lowercase is preferred?
>
> I dug this up from the repo:
>
>    org-element: Prefer lower case letters for blocks and keywords
>
>
> https://code.orgmode.org/bzg/org-mode/commit/13424336a6f30c50952d291e7a82906c1210daf0
>
> So the answer is yes. Also the begin/end pairs are lowercase hardcoded
> in org-tempo.el.
>
> This is a problem for available (ya)snippet databases. I've reported
> it in https://github.com/AndreaCrotti/yasnippet-snippets/issues/303,
> requesting an update. But I guess people will prefer uppercase for a
> time so I'm now sure how should they should cope with the transition.
>
> Best regards
> --
> Carlos
>
> >
> > Regards
> > --
> > Carlos
>
>

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Re: Lowercase keywords in 9.2?

[Carlos Pita]

> Here are two previous threads about the subject:
>
> Last month: http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-orgmode/2019-01/msg00349.html
> A year ago: http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-orgmode/2018-01/msg00425.html

Interesting, thanks! Although the issue of mostly uppercase external
snippet collections was not raised there. For now I'm disabling yas in
org mode and using org-tempo exclusively.

Re: Lowercase keywords in 9.2?

[Martin Alsinet]

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Carlos,

I recently updated to 9.2 and was also confronted with the org-tempo
change.
At first I didn't like the lowercase tags for the blocks, but I got used to
them after a couple of days.

Someone suggested adding a defcustom option to org-tempo to let the user
choose between lower and upper case tags.
It seems a simple enough feature for a first contribution. Maybe we could
add it? I have never done it before, but I am willing to try.


On Tue, Feb 12, 2019 at 10:30 AM Carlos Pita <carlosjosepita@gmail.com>
wrote:

> > Here are two previous threads about the subject:
> >
> > Last month:
> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-orgmode/2019-01/msg00349.html
> > A year ago:
> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-orgmode/2018-01/msg00425.html
>
> Interesting, thanks! Although the issue of mostly uppercase external
> snippet collections was not raised there. For now I'm disabling yas in
> org mode and using org-tempo exclusively.
>

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Re: Lowercase keywords in 9.2?

[Carlos Pita]

> At first I didn't like the lowercase tags for the blocks, but I got used to them after a couple of days.

I prefer the lowercase convention hands down. The problem I pointed
out is with the uppercase legacy.

> Someone suggested adding a defcustom option to org-tempo to let the user choose between lower and upper case tags.
> It seems a simple enough feature for a first contribution. Maybe we could add it? I have never done it before, but I am willing to try.

I wouldn't mind (helping you) doing it as far as there is agreement
whether this is a desired option or not.

I guess it would be enough to patch the sites affected by
https://code.orgmode.org/bzg/org-mode/commit/13424336a6f30c50952d291e7a82906c1210daf0
and also the templates definition in org-tempo.

Regards
--
Carlos

Re: Lowercase keywords in 9.2?

[Martin Alsinet]

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What do you mean with the "uppercase legacy"? You mean all the current
documents we already have?
In my case, those will remain with the upper case tags until I need to edit
them.

I guess it would be enough to patch the sites affected by
>
> https://code.orgmode.org/bzg/org-mode/commit/13424336a6f30c50952d291e7a82906c1210daf0
> and also the templates definition in org-tempo.


Looking at that diff, the changes are not so simple as I initially thought,
I was just thinking about patching org-tempo, but I guess they should cover
all the uppercase tags.
Now I don't feel so confident about doing it :-(

Regards

On Tue, Feb 12, 2019 at 11:10 AM Carlos Pita <carlosjosepita@gmail.com>
wrote:

> > At first I didn't like the lowercase tags for the blocks, but I got used
> to them after a couple of days.
>
> I prefer the lowercase convention hands down. The problem I pointed
> out is with the uppercase legacy.
>
> > Someone suggested adding a defcustom option to org-tempo to let the user
> choose between lower and upper case tags.
> > It seems a simple enough feature for a first contribution. Maybe we
> could add it? I have never done it before, but I am willing to try.
>
> I wouldn't mind (helping you) doing it as far as there is agreement
> whether this is a desired option or not.
>
> I guess it would be enough to patch the sites affected by
>
> https://code.orgmode.org/bzg/org-mode/commit/13424336a6f30c50952d291e7a82906c1210daf0
> and also the templates definition in org-tempo.
>
> Regards
> --
> Carlos
>

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Re: Lowercase keywords in 9.2?

[Carlos Pita]

> What do you mean with the "uppercase legacy"? You mean all the current documents we already have?

Specifically what motivated this post: collections of snippets that
have been written with the historical convention in mind. It's easy to
convert them but it's not that easy to convert users :).

Anyway I was just asking for opinions about what should be done,
although I guess the answer is to not procrastinate conversion to the
new convention.

Re: Lowercase keywords in 9.2?

[Kaushal Modi]

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On Tue, Feb 12, 2019 at 3:59 PM Carlos Pita <carlosjosepita@gmail.com>
wrote:

> > What do you mean with the "uppercase legacy"? You mean all the current
> documents we already have?
>
> Specifically what motivated this post: collections of snippets that
> have been written with the historical convention in mind. It's easy to
> convert them but it's not that easy to convert users :).
>

I am one of those who prefer the lower-case keywords :)

I started converting my Org documents to use the new convention around the
time it landed in the Org mode master branch little more than a year back:
https://scripter.co/org-keywords-lower-case/.

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Re: Lowercase keywords in 9.2?

[Carlos Pita]

Today I noticed the export templates inserted by org are still uppercase:

#+LATEX_CLASS: article
#+LATEX_CLASS_OPTIONS:
#+LATEX_HEADER:
#+LATEX_HEADER_EXTRA:
#+DESCRIPTION:
#+KEYWORDS:
#+SUBTITLE:
#+LATEX_COMPILER: pdflatex
#+DATE: \today

Is this intentional, is the lowercase convention intended for blocks only?

Best regards
--
Carlos

Re: Lowercase keywords in 9.2?

[Nicolas Goaziou]

Hello,

Carlos Pita <carlosjosepita@gmail.com> writes:

> Today I noticed the export templates inserted by org are still uppercase:
>
> #+LATEX_CLASS: article
> #+LATEX_CLASS_OPTIONS:
> #+LATEX_HEADER:
> #+LATEX_HEADER_EXTRA:
> #+DESCRIPTION:
> #+KEYWORDS:
> #+SUBTITLE:
> #+LATEX_COMPILER: pdflatex
>
> #+DATE: \today
>
> Is this intentional, is the lowercase convention intended for blocks
> only?

I fixed it. Thank you.

Regards,

-- 
Nicolas Goaziou

Re: Lowercase keywords in 9.2?

[Carlos Pita]

Great, thanks!