From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Marcin Borkowski Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#3540: Please reserve a ctrl-key combination for interoperability Date: Sun, 06 Oct 2019 21:39:50 +0200 Message-ID: <87tv8lek8p.fsf@mbork.pl> References: <1244771200l.4854l.2l@mofo> <87y2xye4nz.fsf@mbork.pl> <0d884621-5d6e-47c6-8a0e-d70d4c09f15e@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="235627"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" User-Agent: mu4e 1.1.0; emacs 27.0.50 Cc: "Karl O. Pinc" , Stefan Kangas , 3540@debbugs.gnu.org To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Oct 06 21:41:15 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1iHCP2-000z6r-Kc for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 06 Oct 2019 21:41:12 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:36620 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iHCP1-0006kW-Ew for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 06 Oct 2019 15:41:11 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:56781) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iHCOt-0006kO-Vp for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 06 Oct 2019 15:41:05 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iHCOs-0001ql-P4 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 06 Oct 2019 15:41:03 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:38097) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iHCOs-0001qf-Lq for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 06 Oct 2019 15:41:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iHCOs-0003G5-Gq for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 06 Oct 2019 15:41:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Marcin Borkowski Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 06 Oct 2019 19:41:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 3540 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 3540-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B3540.157039081112438 (code B ref 3540); Sun, 06 Oct 2019 19:41:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 3540) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Oct 2019 19:40:11 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46918 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iHCO2-0003EV-R9 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 06 Oct 2019 15:40:11 -0400 Original-Received: from mail.mojserwer.eu ([195.110.48.8]:43294) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iHCNy-0003EC-HF for 3540@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 06 Oct 2019 15:40:10 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.mojserwer.eu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A3B0E64AB; Sun, 6 Oct 2019 21:40:01 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at mail.mojserwer.eu Original-Received: from mail.mojserwer.eu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.mojserwer.eu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id p2BYng3lceQs; Sun, 6 Oct 2019 21:39:54 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from localhost (jeden09-dwa27.echostar.pl [213.156.109.227]) by mail.mojserwer.eu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A8312E642A; Sun, 6 Oct 2019 21:39:53 +0200 (CEST) In-reply-to: <0d884621-5d6e-47c6-8a0e-d70d4c09f15e@default> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 209.51.188.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:168459 Archived-At: On 2019-10-06, at 18:10, Drew Adams wrote: >> As a partial solution, the manual *might* suggest to use C-z for that, >> especially that is is bounded to a 99.99% useless command by default >> (and using e.g. screen or tmux makes it 100% useless). > > No, please don't do that. IMO: > > `C-z' is better used by users and libraries as a > _prefix key_ (by users who are willing to forego > the default binding). Actually, that's what I do in my config. (Is there anyone who actually wants C-z's default binding???) > The manual should not suggest that users bind any > particular keys. It's OK for a 3rd-party library > to suggest key bindings. It's not good for Emacs > itself to do that. I'm not sure I agree. I'd welcome a list of bindings like C-z or M-o which do nothing useful by default. (In fact, I compiled such a list myself - http://mbork.pl/2019-03-18_Free_Emacs_key_bindings - but I'm not very happy with it.) > 3rd-party libraries are opt-in by users. Using > one is like adding its feature/code to your init > file - it's a user choice. > > The same isn't true of much of the code distributed > by Emacs. And even when a distributed library (e.g. > `dired-x.el') is opt-in, Emacs should not suggest > bindings for its commands. "Suggestion" by Emacs > is sometimes mistakenly taken by users as a "rule" > or a convention. That's why it should be made clear that it's a suggestion, like: "Many users find some commands not useful for them at all. They might want to rebind their keys to ones that they use frequently." > There's no good reason for Emacs to suggest that > users use `C-z' for anything particular. On the contrary, there is: the meaning of C-z is "I want to leave Emacs for a moment and be able to come back". If you use screen or tmux, you express the same wish by pressing a combo starting with the prefix key. Of course, I'm not insisting at all - just suggesting. Best, -- Marcin Borkowski http://mbork.pl