From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: "Philip K." Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: GNU Emacs raison d'etre Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 20:31:18 +0200 Message-ID: <87tv05p4ll.fsf@warpmail.net> References: <871rnnvmdx.fsf@red-bean.com> <87pnb7sira.fsf@red-bean.com> <06bcddd4-6991-e4f7-e944-93de14af263d@yandex.ru> <87h7wjsd8o.fsf@red-bean.com> <20897f01-122d-7f91-eac2-70f5ad75796f@yandex.ru> <87d077qfmm.fsf@red-bean.com> <87y2pmw9ld.fsf@red-bean.com> <6e4190a4-765d-6abd-1ae2-8c1432c29d65@yandex.ru> <20200521080349.GC26656@tuxteam.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="94415"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: xristos , tomas@tuxteam.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Arthur Miller Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun May 24 20:32:58 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jcvQe-000OOw-3O for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 24 May 2020 20:32:56 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:51474 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jcvQd-0000ht-4b for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 24 May 2020 14:32:55 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:60802) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jcvPB-0008Bw-Fe for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 24 May 2020 14:31:25 -0400 Original-Received: from out3-smtp.messagingengine.com ([66.111.4.27]:45719) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jcvPA-0006Tz-2M for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 24 May 2020 14:31:25 -0400 Original-Received: from compute2.internal (compute2.nyi.internal [10.202.2.42]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42A835C0091; Sun, 24 May 2020 14:31:23 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from mailfrontend1 ([10.202.2.162]) by compute2.internal (MEProxy); Sun, 24 May 2020 14:31:23 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=warpmail.net; h= from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :mime-version:content-type; s=fm3; bh=84c65FSlJYjeuxbP2ru/EzM75T soXu5zErcIaAPhUew=; b=V7cr6p8FmLibGU8UNLYSwERAlHoV9mYDN84noVIdjR XUpNbhbsxYoXHzANPcCM6FjpdVgYE0xGTJYyxy+j/XhtmwQ8jBJonKga5GB/oAMb YSmMF1fRVJPGJcfrryFizTYRs5ImcE2JPxG5GV5e0UyhXCs07y+N7l3a1myhD0m/ MJp2JskBXyozmRSzo7CGd4Ge7Vr+7pmS+plHqpdxUtMk5eQMfZiYFnJ2v4IPSQ/V jZXWVosxZbRdnsTJv/ch0noSwSUNaJX/MgIGr7P1BFh72ZEpfVBCqUpGsRqclL8z 1jhzRGt+yQ3jKq0HwZRcPqfGjN7ydN/sAZj26QgmReUg== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm2; bh=84c65F SlJYjeuxbP2ru/EzM75TsoXu5zErcIaAPhUew=; b=qq3AsqBOshfWdbtOH5l13i 9LajIJIcHGkPz/tb9fdXImDLXlvoRbMqTx76VK7DJSnAMXt/JuYZe1gV5NUMNvPu t54LkhMjhzp/nt2Jx2m2RZuL0tUXVzl9lll2oz6UAEti6I1NjcPZaAA/Wd1Vvybv 9Lh/IdlzC5z+IkCg+Srg+t45kcjOW3KhnQbXYgKzlCjtjFlSnmXr2gzIfuTeKnDX AZtxMEFSIMRlhq2A8bxHbkpsaNXjphWv8q/c70f+sy6/OhnrpJe6/dGOVfPHLuwr PnDSCpbBDd+3yS445OOEnCK9uLpMFgs7A5HJEybsbhjDOMiJ7MBPetyg0OWovhMA == X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduhedruddukedguddvgecutefuodetggdotefrod ftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfgh necuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmd enucfjughrpefhvffufhffjgfkfgggtgesthdtredttdertdenucfhrhhomhepfdfrhhhi lhhiphcumfdrfdcuoehphhhilhhiphesfigrrhhpmhgrihhlrdhnvghtqeenucggtffrrg htthgvrhhnpedukeeuveelgfefieeghfegleetveeihefhteejgfeiudehgedvhfffjefh ffelffenucfkphepjeelrddvudelrdduleelrdegjeenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpe dtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpehphhhilhhiphesfigrrhhpmhgrihhlrdhn vght X-ME-Proxy: Original-Received: from localhost (p4fdbc72f.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [79.219.199.47]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id C01DE328005D; Sun, 24 May 2020 14:31:20 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: (Arthur Miller's message of "Sun, 24 May 2020 15:45:08 +0200") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=66.111.4.27; envelope-from=philip@warpmail.net; helo=out3-smtp.messagingengine.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/05/24 14:31:23 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:251331 Archived-At: Arthur Miller writes: > Yes, indeed, you are onto something here. It would be nice if there > were different smaller tutorials, for example one for text, one for file > managing, one for email etc. I guess everybody could agree with that, > and probably only reason why it didn't happened yet is because somebody > actually have to produce those, which is not as trivial as it might > sound, I guess. There are some floating resources, tutorial-like blog > posts, some YT content etc. I don't know if Emacs could link to those > as extra resources etc. I find this very interesting, the built in tutorial is often seen as boring, and I remember trying multiple times to get through it, most after 10%-20%. What might be interesting is to use child frames to only show what's necessary, like many other programms do (highlighting what's interesting, waiting for user interaction, etc.). But that would require a kind of DSL or pseudo-DSL to "programm" these interactive tutorials, unless one would want to manually write them out for every topic. Might look something like this: (deftutorial window-managment "Window Managment" "A basic tutorial on window managment" :estemated-time "3m" :difficulty 'easy (show "This tutorial introduces the user to window managment") (wait) (show "Press \\[split-window-below] to split the current window.") (expect 'split-window-below) (show "Good! Now you can switch to that buffer with C-x o runs the \\[other-window].") ...) where the user might later invoke a command like M-x introduce RET, and choose "Window Managment" from a list of options. On the other hand, a list-buffers like approach would be better, because the default completion system can be unintuitive. Ideally it might even be used by external packages to introduce user to whatever it has to offer. -- Philip K.