From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?utf-8?B?R8O2a3R1xJ8=?= Kayaalp Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: A modern-mode? Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2020 13:39:17 +0300 Message-ID: <87tuvy3t0q.fsf@gkayaalp.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="17782"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: mu4e 1.2.0; emacs 28.0.50 Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, Andrea Corallo To: Gregory Heytings Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Sep 16 12:40:07 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kIUr9-0004TG-Jj for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 12:40:07 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:36372 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kIUr8-0005Nc-MH for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 06:40:06 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:38028) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kIUqW-0004vZ-Nw for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 06:39:28 -0400 Original-Received: from relay10.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.178.230]:59281) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kIUqU-0006v3-NC for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 06:39:28 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost (unknown [31.177.204.112]) (Authenticated sender: self@gkayaalp.com) by relay10.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0A856240017; Wed, 16 Sep 2020 10:39:19 +0000 (UTC) In-reply-to: Received-SPF: none client-ip=217.70.178.230; envelope-from=self@gkayaalp.com; helo=relay10.mail.gandi.net X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/09/16 06:39:23 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.11 and newer [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -25 X-Spam_score: -2.6 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:255854 Archived-At: On 2020-09-16 11:58 +03, Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions= . wrote: > The problem is that Emacs developers would have to agree on what that > set of "more modern / friendly defaults" is, which is unlikely to > happen. Again, different people have (very!) different ideas of what > "modern / friendly" is. If we=E2=80=99re trying to make Emacs friendlier for newcomers, I doubt it= =E2=80=99s Emacs developers who need to agree, but the software that they use as a proxy to their preferences. And given such agreement exists when you compare the feature set of these programs, there=E2=80=99s not much room for debate here actually. > - fido-mode: in another thread Eli explained that in his opinion > icomplete's behavior is not intuitive enough for newcomers, and I > (and probably others) agree with what he said Could be made more intuitive via customisation within the mode. > - global-auto-revert-mode: I would strongly object to this, having > your editor doing something without asking you for a confirmation is > not something many newcomers would find intuitive This is what _all_ these editors do so while maybe you (and I, too) don=E2=80=99t find it intuitive, that other people do find it intuitive is = kinda obvious. > - winner-mode: I don't understand why you would turn this on, IMO > having C-c and C-c to undo window changes is useless > for a newcomer, and C-c / is not a keybinding they > can guess by themselves. And in that case they just use the mouse until they feel like they can do better. We could also incorporate a cheat sheet that organises things a bit more better than C-h m. But ultimately the beauty of Andrea=E2=80=99s approach is that we can just = put random things in there, write EXPERIMENTAL in all caps in the docstring, and refine until 28. What we initially put in there is not all that important. to be honest. -- =C4=B0. G=C3=B6ktu=C4=9F Kayaalp / @cadadr / pgp: 024C 30DD 597D 142B 49AC 40EB 465C D949 B101 2427