From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Sean Whitton Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: PGTK-related misconceptions Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2022 11:27:37 -0700 Message-ID: <87tuaqxn52.fsf@melete.silentflame.com> References: <87lew7qdtj.fsf@yahoo.com> <87zgkjvujl.fsf@athena.silentflame.com> <87czhfkldw.fsf@yahoo.com> <87sfqbvtcw.fsf@athena.silentflame.com> <87tuarj5lv.fsf@yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="34801"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Emacs/29.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Po Lu Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Apr 18 20:28:24 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1ngW6o-0008ra-Sl for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 18 Apr 2022 20:28:24 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:58110 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ngW6n-0006nj-CJ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 18 Apr 2022 14:28:21 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:60260) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ngW69-000671-5y for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 18 Apr 2022 14:27:41 -0400 Original-Received: from out1-smtp.messagingengine.com ([66.111.4.25]:51593) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ngW67-0005Ez-HA for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 18 Apr 2022 14:27:40 -0400 Original-Received: from compute3.internal (compute3.nyi.internal [10.202.2.43]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 746745C005E; Mon, 18 Apr 2022 14:27:38 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from mailfrontend2 ([10.202.2.163]) by compute3.internal (MEProxy); Mon, 18 Apr 2022 14:27:38 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=spwhitton.name; h=cc:cc:content-type:date:date:from:from:in-reply-to :in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references:reply-to:sender :subject:subject:to:to; s=fm3; t=1650306458; x=1650392858; bh=Z3 z/a+h4bvrKznHLkRbRzP16tJ9/kH272uczEdi7skY=; b=USZzJA+sjvibVVl2YF WSo2p6wz/y+D8orwhGrqg/Lh0NIXnrIvom1tRoFlif13799dMJRAww2K8lL6JPbK 1u9ILKXItDPYiqCjnImGHGJTF0BRw7OAFci0LihdBhmTPnSeMSPbMmuYTLKbDsDi McDk43rPdYO0OsYUBIyEZjMoblSU029HhB1j6pBxSTQzG7X1BUOvSNel+i4fGPIH k4SOp+JEStOfzG22kDGW8XRMgScIExIoV1XMmFLlp8iDrv/warW+CXrP8PLDZgbj cMQJgeYst9uuHlspJ2II5tRn7kD/9X5SAQ0/2inwhT4Vht6ejOTAZrUukP09adMI aMmw== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:cc:content-type:date:date:from:from :in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :reply-to:sender:subject:subject:to:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy :x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; t=1650306458; x= 1650392858; bh=Z3z/a+h4bvrKznHLkRbRzP16tJ9/kH272uczEdi7skY=; b=e f18DqEF2ROf6k1Q/tfuuLDk1/NlY2Td5WxNxrHas6SGWbF1tamGzq1Y0sXB3/HUK 9ssNGC9HEL9j+HHTDk9KNgPfhou9TILo6itgot+UGTjCZKYfqtm5zgDVrGVdQWT8 wC16lm+KCdkvGGZta1DHf/DfT2rEj88ZW/i8qe5yIbw8BWTyis2QC0rzUclBPooT +5Q5hY8dDGJtUqyoOvUrplNsPWxju8au0jbE6gRVwFYKixuVa9UMAgZh5uHOlodj uE4Baj+ZD/nZ+26S7fvX5M/OA7tExnS2xpWJ36za9Ks7owtE7+rfwuYJhqF6xnJO cxLgd5n0BXePGyebDeZDA== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Received: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvvddrvddtuddguddvhecutefuodetggdotefrod ftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfgh necuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecunecujfgurhephffvufgjfhgffffkgggtsehttd dttddtredtnecuhfhrohhmpefuvggrnhcuhghhihhtthhonhcuoehsphifhhhithhtohhn sehsphifhhhithhtohhnrdhnrghmvgeqnecuggftrfgrthhtvghrnhepleeggefgvdeije dvhfdugfegtefgkeekueeileejjeehudeggeefteeghfeuffeknecuvehluhhsthgvrhfu ihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilhhfrhhomhepshhpfihhihhtthhonhesshhpfi hhihhtthhonhdrnhgrmhgv X-ME-Proxy: Original-Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Mon, 18 Apr 2022 14:27:38 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: by melete.silentflame.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 739B97E49F4; Mon, 18 Apr 2022 11:27:37 -0700 (MST) In-Reply-To: <87tuarj5lv.fsf@yahoo.com> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=66.111.4.25; envelope-from=spwhitton@spwhitton.name; helo=out1-smtp.messagingengine.com X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:288625 Archived-At: Hello, On Mon 18 Apr 2022 at 01:57PM +08, Po Lu wrote: > Sean Whitton writes: > >> It recommends it /for/ using alternative window systems, not /only for/ >> using alternative window systems, so far as I can tell. For example >> >> With the PGTK build, you will be able to switch between running >> Emacs on X, Wayland and Broadway using the 'GDK_BACKEND' environment >> variable. >> >> really makes it sound like it's find to use it if you're using only X. > > I don't see a difference between "for" and "only for" in this case, > because above the section talking about PGTK (and also in the details > below) is a large amount of commentary discussing the regular X build. Well, I can only reiterate that on my reading the file does not clearly express the idea that PGTK should be avoided if you don't absolutely require it. And I'm someone relatively familiar with PGTK. I can easily imagine us seeing distros replacing the package emacs-gtk with emacs-pgtk on the assumption that it is a straight upgrade. It will be hard to undo that. You mentioned that various blog posts give people the wrong idea. We could decide to make the point extra clearly in INSTALL for the sake of counteracting a misconception that is continuing to spread, and is showing no signs of stopping. -- Sean Whitton