From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Emanuel Berg Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.tangents Subject: Re: Display of undisplayable characters: \U01F3A8 instead of diamond Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2022 23:14:46 +0200 Message-ID: <87tu5pxyux.fsf@dataswamp.org> References: <87edx28cl1.fsf@disroot.org> <83y1v7w6eu.fsf@gnu.org> <2f302d1c3966849477b3@heytings.org> <83mtbiovzr.fsf@gnu.org> <83a67hq3l7.fsf@gnu.org> <878rn1zk52.fsf@dataswamp.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="36920"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) To: emacs-tangents@gnu.org Cancel-Lock: sha1:k1uDQ7yM8+5HxEhmp5HoS3OfaxY= Original-X-From: emacs-tangents-bounces+get-emacs-tangents=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Sep 03 01:02:19 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: get-emacs-tangents@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1oUFg2-0009Mm-Mn for get-emacs-tangents@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 03 Sep 2022 01:02:18 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:56756 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oUFg1-0002C6-Aw for get-emacs-tangents@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 02 Sep 2022 19:02:17 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:43748) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oUE0I-0005k2-IQ for emacs-tangents@gnu.org; Fri, 02 Sep 2022 17:15:06 -0400 Original-Received: from ciao.gmane.io ([116.202.254.214]:47264) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oUE0G-0003Bd-BI for emacs-tangents@gnu.org; Fri, 02 Sep 2022 17:15:05 -0400 Original-Received: from list by ciao.gmane.io with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1oUE0E-0000ys-Fd for emacs-tangents@gnu.org; Fri, 02 Sep 2022 23:15:02 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Mail-Followup-To: emacs-tangents@gnu.org Mail-Copies-To: never Received-SPF: pass client-ip=116.202.254.214; envelope-from=get-emacs-tangents@m.gmane-mx.org; helo=ciao.gmane.io X-Spam_score_int: -16 X-Spam_score: -1.7 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.7 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 02 Sep 2022 19:01:57 -0400 X-BeenThere: emacs-tangents@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Emacs news and miscellaneous discussions outside the scope of other Emacs mailing lists List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-tangents-bounces+get-emacs-tangents=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-tangents" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.tangents:908 Archived-At: chad wrote: > The bug was better in that the undefined behavior from > sending known-bad data to the console hasn't yet caused you > trouble that you've identified. Everyone (who's looked at > the code) acknowledges that it was doing the wrong thing. > The fact that the bug didn't hurt you and you got used to it > is exactly what I meant by "adapted themselves". -1 > What the other user (RMS, in this case) _wanted_ to do was > to use a console (not window system) emacs to look at > a range of characters that extends beyond ASCII. > The specific implementations he was using did that right > some of the time and wrong some of the time. When it was > wrong, it failed in a certain way. He adapted himself to > that failure. -2 > The alternative that emacs-devel is trying to establish (via > experiments, etc/PROBLEMS changes, and perhaps code patches) > will make the system fail less often -- that is, do what the > user wants more often. The argument in question is basically > "Don't make the software do what the user wants more often > if it changes away from the bugs that are already familiar > to me", especially when that argument is expressed *in the > middle of fixing the problem*, as a discouragement from > fixing the problem for all users, then we've arrived at > "That's horrifying." ala XKCD 1172. -3 -- underground experts united https://dataswamp.org/~incal