From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Emanuel Berg Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: History Re: Debunking Emacs merits over GUI - Re: package for Email Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2023 18:16:27 +0100 Message-ID: <87ttysv85w.fsf@dataswamp.org> References: <20230118180348.gzwvy6iztok45ko3@zoho.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="5700"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Cancel-Lock: sha1:jeUjvTO/QcKxPpd4hR2O8TYkTI4= Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Mar 13 08:36:11 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1pbcj5-0001EE-16 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 13 Mar 2023 08:36:11 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pbciu-0008Qi-Ug; Mon, 13 Mar 2023 03:36:00 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pagMO-0003mk-4E for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 10 Mar 2023 12:16:55 -0500 Original-Received: from ciao.gmane.io ([116.202.254.214]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pagMG-000115-HH for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 10 Mar 2023 12:16:51 -0500 Original-Received: from list by ciao.gmane.io with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1pagMA-0006dv-FQ for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 10 Mar 2023 18:16:38 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Mail-Followup-To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Mail-Copies-To: never Received-SPF: pass client-ip=116.202.254.214; envelope-from=geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; helo=ciao.gmane.io X-Spam_score_int: -15 X-Spam_score: -1.6 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 13 Mar 2023 03:35:59 -0400 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:143006 Archived-At: David Masterson wrote: > I think this thread is kind of missing a key point -- > history. I've been around Emacs for ~40 years (yes, > TECO Emacs), but I'm, by no means, close to being a > "Master of Emacs" (we used to call them Gurus). I never had > time to learn Elisp programming, so I just hacked Elisp code > together to try out new things (basically setq and > add-to-hook and, maybe, advise until packages came along) to > help me with my work. Interesting, please write more computer history whenever and as much as you feel like! <3 > There's a lot of history behind what I just said: > > 1. The PC Revolution > > Mainframes became the backroom land of COBOL that no > self-respecting college grad would go to. Minis slowly > disappeared as PCs began making their mark. The problem was > that it would be 15-25 years before affordable PCs that were > powerful enough to really support Emacs Really, that long? :O > 2. Free Software > > While RMS' goal may have been laudable, many (most) > programmers could not see how to monetize their work in > a free software environment and, so, went where the money > was more plentiful. Without the investment of big bucks that > copyrighted software could command, development of Emacs in > the 90s slowed to a crawl and depended on the programmer > "with an itch". Good stuff was done, but it could've been so > much more. This is why Emacs development took 40 years > whereas things might've happened faster in the more > capitalistic world (but Emacs would've been very different > beast!). It's enough that the people who likes it enough to do it, do it. Gets more real that way and a better community, of doers and users rather than managers and PR guys ... > 5. Smartphones > > The iPhone is still not capable of supporting Emacs and > I don't know how well Android could support Emacs. Even if > they could support Emacs, Smartphones are GUI-intensive, so > not really an environment for a text editor. They don't have to be, there are text-based Android apps and plugin a physical keyboard and you should have, I don't know, something. I prefer the comfort of other solutions but it should be possible, and absolutely so in the long run, for people who wants that. > So the next generation of users/programmers are going to be > "non-GUI challenged". It's to early to say, as the Chinese Zhou Enlai first premier said when asked about the significance of the French revolution ... > [AI] is an area that I wasn't in, so I can't say much. > I assume it will lead to more server systems and Linux (and > Emacs) can ride the coattails. The tools for AI may be more > in the Linux world, so the landscape could change. In 1000 years there won't be a single job a human can do - physical, analytical, mental, even purely emotional if there are such jobs - that will outperform a machine doing the same thing. Programs that program programs should be just around the corner. PS. This message is sent by a human being. My name is Emanuel Berg and I approve this message. And I'm not just saying that! Heer is a typo to prove I'm not a machine. Really ... -- underground experts united https://dataswamp.org/~incal