From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Philip Kaludercic Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: package-autosuggest Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2023 14:40:51 +0000 Message-ID: <87ttseufbg.fsf@posteo.net> References: <87il9kksqz.fsf@dfreeman.email> <97c96b72-ebba-4853-98d2-86e3ba8bbc05@app.fastmail.com> <83sf84i9ix.fsf@gnu.org> <837cpfhzdm.fsf@gnu.org> <83zg2agjp8.fsf@gnu.org> <87ttshk3ns.fsf@posteo.net> <83il8whjig.fsf@gnu.org> <87fs40oiie.fsf@posteo.net> <838r9shgtz.fsf@gnu.org> <871qfkogy7.fsf@posteo.net> <835y4whd0m.fsf@gnu.org> <87r0nks55d.fsf_-_@posteo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="40405"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Stefan Kangas , Stefan Monnier , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eshel Yaron Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Sep 01 16:42:21 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qc5Lp-000AJY-FP for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 01 Sep 2023 16:42:21 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qc5Kr-0003yo-1C; Fri, 01 Sep 2023 10:41:21 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qc5Km-0003yN-3Z for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 01 Sep 2023 10:41:16 -0400 Original-Received: from mout02.posteo.de ([185.67.36.66]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qc5KR-00071O-Bk for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 01 Sep 2023 10:41:15 -0400 Original-Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout02.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0A6EB240103 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 2023 16:40:53 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1693579253; bh=Ida4BePMC6w1mJ4phRa+0JZTNN7ZBDILqvHV/lqsM8Y=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Autocrypt:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:From; b=SJoF/sO1dRj+Y+b1g4FZlnNn0VGG5g8v6sVbQxOYWw22uvcRY/YOTb0EbydIBYLk6 hHN6o8oiCp8EtnY4qB2cWW5FlACSYKvBZFgTyfkqWROxLg3mLeAx8ondjk8BlhBFwC OUeB6EZVzMPBF0CAG0IxpsW9Tjojmp9z5DooOw9VQLb7qscbkljpeoU3AQlgETousp oWHifE4cpLDlHRY4dK0EhSpU9lCESzujvsEVx1Dei5Frrd61lQ1gnpo+v76VdM0aJ0 EWthbVB5Z7eTCcqDOCdjRGOs8L6+7XsRcR5FM0pujiNcvvyAmY/ZZCnR1QxhZVRweL nEBno2KxPTXGw== Original-Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4Rcggm2F75z9rxQ; Fri, 1 Sep 2023 16:40:52 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: (Eshel Yaron's message of "Fri, 01 Sep 2023 09:01:28 +0200") Autocrypt: addr=philipk@posteo.net; keydata= mDMEZBBQQhYJKwYBBAHaRw8BAQdAHJuofBrfqFh12uQu0Yi7mrl525F28eTmwUDflFNmdui0QlBo aWxpcCBLYWx1ZGVyY2ljIChnZW5lcmF0ZWQgYnkgYXV0b2NyeXB0LmVsKSA8cGhpbGlwa0Bwb3N0 ZW8ubmV0PoiWBBMWCAA+FiEEDg7HY17ghYlni8XN8xYDWXahwukFAmQQUEICGwMFCQHhM4AFCwkI BwIGFQoJCAsCBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQ8xYDWXahwulikAEA77hloUiSrXgFkUVJhlKBpLCHUjA0 mWZ9j9w5d08+jVwBAK6c4iGP7j+/PhbkxaEKa4V3MzIl7zJkcNNjHCXmvFcEuDgEZBBQQhIKKwYB BAGXVQEFAQEHQI5NLiLRjZy3OfSt1dhCmFyn+fN/QKELUYQetiaoe+MMAwEIB4h+BBgWCAAmFiEE Dg7HY17ghYlni8XN8xYDWXahwukFAmQQUEICGwwFCQHhM4AACgkQ8xYDWXahwukm+wEA8cml4JpK NeAu65rg+auKrPOP6TP/4YWRCTIvuYDm0joBALw98AMz7/qMHvSCeU/hw9PL6u6R2EScxtpKnWof z4oM Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.66; envelope-from=philipk@posteo.net; helo=mout02.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, T_SPF_TEMPERROR=0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:309808 Archived-At: Eshel Yaron writes: > Hello Stefan, > > Stefan Kangas writes: > >> Eshel Yaron writes: >> >>> That'd indeed already be an improvement, my point is that in some cases >>> we would know that it really is the right package with very high >>> certainty. >> >> Shouldn't that just be the criterion, then? In other words, isn't >> that what it would mean to only recommend things that are likely to be >> helpful? > > I'm not sure. In Philip's draft, I don't think that this is the case. > (Correct me if I've missed anything, please.) The assumption in my draft was that the database would only be populated with entries that would be considered helpful, or rather if the database were to be generated from GNU ELPA and NonGNU ELPA packages, it shouldn't recommend unhelpful packages, as all packages in GNU and NonGNU ELPA are supposed to be helpful in the first place. > The way I see it there > are two parameters to consider for each recommendation. Let's call them > potential and confidence. Potential is how much value the user can > obtain from Emacs's recommendation. That depends mostly on the > recommended package itself. Confidence is how certain Emacs is that > this user should use this package. For example, again, in the current > draft we have a recommendation for `sml-mode` based on files with > extension `.sml`. This recommendation has great potential to benefit > Standard ML users (I assume, I haven't tried it out myself), but the > confidence for this recommendation isn't that high, because it's prone > to false positives (not all `.sml` files are Standard ML). That is a legitimate point, but one that Emacs suffers from in general. I frequently find Perl and Prolog files that both end in .pl, but there can only be one entry in auto-mode-list (unless you manually do a `c-or-c++-mode'). > The crux is that the quality of a recommendation depends not only on the > quality of the package but also on the strength of the signal that leads > Emacs to recommend it (the quality of the "hint"). So are you thinking of a numerical value? And wouldn't the value depend on the file contents? And how do you think this valuation should be used? > Personally, I think that even with a chance of false positives, > suggesting `sml-mode` to a user that opens `foo.sml` is great. For this > reason, I proposed that Emacs should make both high-confidence and > low-confidence recommendations, but use different messages for the two > cases (or three, if you want to also have "medium-confidence"). The current proposal wouldn't install anything automatically anyway, it would prompt the user if they are interested in this kind of a file > > Best, > > Eshel