From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Danny Freeman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Brand new clojure support in Emacs ;-) Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2023 09:05:45 -0400 Message-ID: <87ttsehwab.fsf@dfreeman.email> References: <87il9kksqz.fsf@dfreeman.email> <87a5uw9ivs.fsf@posteo.net> <87ttt42gna.fsf@dfreeman.email> <87wmy080kn.fsf@posteo.net> <83v8djcydl.fsf@gnu.org> <87350ndquw.fsf@dfreeman.email> <83350ncbns.fsf@gnu.org> <87cyzrjbd8.fsf@dfreeman.email> <83zg2vav46.fsf@gnu.org> <87o7j99304.fsf@dfreeman.email> <87zg2hsyrd.fsf@dfreeman.email> <87h6ontwfv.fsf@posteo.net> <835y4ucrz3.fsf@gnu.org> <831qficgin.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="18580"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Dmitry Gutov , rms@gnu.org, joaotavora@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Sep 01 15:13:23 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qc3xi-0004da-V9 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 01 Sep 2023 15:13:23 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qc3xK-00016R-D3; Fri, 01 Sep 2023 09:12:58 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qc3xH-00012O-LE for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 01 Sep 2023 09:12:55 -0400 Original-Received: from out-240.mta1.migadu.com ([95.215.58.240]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qc3xE-0003Ig-Gk for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 01 Sep 2023 09:12:55 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=dfreeman.email; s=key1; t=1693573969; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=5LYkv3FoiLPn7bqWRjLH5frCUiGzBS3L1xVk7byQ66M=; b=fAC93rDiM/K5UG8j3GRUNg16N8qIiADlLOl81BKLk5xRbgYj9nHKaVyMFKUMmEezhAOy/m qVXsU0PA3nFe1/uvmyCCzljirP266zjbHNT2elNGo/wy278HD9j+y9z2/UJMy2q31NuLiR dgQ5LIL9lfc25eEH30f7p4stIPH+mLc= X-Report-Abuse: Please report any abuse attempt to abuse@migadu.com and include these headers. In-reply-to: <831qficgin.fsf@gnu.org> X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_OUT Received-SPF: pass client-ip=95.215.58.240; envelope-from=danny@dfreeman.email; helo=out-240.mta1.migadu.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:309775 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2023 12:14:21 +0300 >> Cc: rms@gnu.org, joaotavora@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org >> From: Dmitry Gutov >> >> But we don't always agree between ourselves. Not on this subject anyway. > > Those disagreements are not relevant when the issue is the inclusion > of a package in core. I'd like to think I have the best interests of Emacs at heart, both as someone who has contributed a handful bug fixes to the core, as a clojure developer in my day job, and as the maintainer of clojure-ts-mode. With that in mind, I won't stand in the way of a new clojure editing mode for Emacs, in fact I suggested enabling lisp mode for clojure files somewhere else in this thread. However, I will advocate for not hijacking the name clojure-mode that has been in active use for 15 years. There are a lot of users of clojure-mode, and there is no telling how a builtin mode with the same name might break people's configurations and workflows. Not to mention what it would do to the various packages that (require 'clojure-mode), which those same developers use to get their work done. Philip already made this point, but it is worth re-iterating. I use clojure-mode and Emacs daily at my work. Nearly every other Emacs user I have met in real life also uses clojure-mode. I have convinced a couple of coworkers to abandon proprietary IDEs like intellij in favor of using Emacs with clojure-mode. Even if it will never be included in the core it's still a valuable package to Emacs users. IMO the name clojure-mode should be left as is, and a new name be found for whatever mode is created as a result of this thread. -- Danny Freeman