From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Emanuel Berg Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Shrinking the C core Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2023 08:12:37 +0200 Message-ID: <87ttryeh4a.fsf@dataswamp.org> References: <87ledwx7sh.fsf@yahoo.com> <877cpfybhf.fsf@yahoo.com> <873503y66i.fsf@yahoo.com> <87fs3ur9u8.fsf@dataswamp.org> <875y4moiiq.fsf@dataswamp.org> <83r0n4rj78.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="38382"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Cancel-Lock: sha1:SNSOlMgBJApPbsYJBNmPRpZT9k4= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Sep 13 13:07:14 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qgNiE-0009jR-2N for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 13 Sep 2023 13:07:14 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qgNhy-00063f-B9; Wed, 13 Sep 2023 07:06:58 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qgJ7K-0001zD-0F for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 13 Sep 2023 02:12:50 -0400 Original-Received: from ciao.gmane.io ([116.202.254.214]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qgJ7H-0001hK-DS for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 13 Sep 2023 02:12:49 -0400 Original-Received: from list by ciao.gmane.io with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qgJ7F-000A0Z-69 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 13 Sep 2023 08:12:45 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Mail-Followup-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Mail-Copies-To: never Received-SPF: pass client-ip=116.202.254.214; envelope-from=ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; helo=ciao.gmane.io X-Spam_score_int: -16 X-Spam_score: -1.7 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.7 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 13 Sep 2023 07:06:55 -0400 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:310539 Archived-At: Lynn Winebarger wrote: > Instead of discussing porting emacs to CL, why don't people > work on porting the compiler techniques used in CL to emacs? Absolutely, that is what one should do! And with cl-lib and SLIME and other tools, Emacs-CL integration has reached impressive results already. What I understood from the previous discussion the speed advantage for SBCL was to a large degree because of explicit optimizations the programmer would put in the CL source. Those are perhaps not so acute to bring over to Elisp, since such use in an editor-environment probably would be limited. However I think it would still be interesting and useful, since we could use them in libraries and vanilla Emacs Elisp source. In time, even Joe Elisp hackers would use them directly, in their .emacs files. Also the speed advantage (and whole issue of Elisp being slow) is likely to diminish because of the very impressive native compilation feature, which has showed great results while still being at an early stage. Native compilation will also benefit from improvements in compiler design and future computer architecture progress. So IIUC the only big thing SBCL has, and we don't, is multi-threading. Bummer, but it is what it is. -- underground experts united https://dataswamp.org/~incal