From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Bastien Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: generate 2) other pages for Info Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 16:17:40 +0200 Message-ID: <87sl55a2kb.fsf@bzg.ath.cx> References: <87lkaxbput.fsf@bzg.ath.cx> <87ejgp7epy.fsf_-_@jurta.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1190557082 13084 80.91.229.12 (23 Sep 2007 14:18:02 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 14:18:02 +0000 (UTC) Cc: drew.adams@oracle.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Juri Linkov Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Sep 23 16:17:55 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1IZSHT-0000aD-7P for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 23 Sep 2007 16:17:55 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IZSHQ-0004Ww-HK for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 23 Sep 2007 10:17:52 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1IZSHO-0004Wn-Jg for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 23 Sep 2007 10:17:50 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1IZSHO-0004WU-9Z for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 23 Sep 2007 10:17:50 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IZSHO-0004WQ-1F for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 23 Sep 2007 10:17:50 -0400 Original-Received: from mu-out-0910.google.com ([209.85.134.190]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1IZSHN-0001ZZ-H0 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 23 Sep 2007 10:17:49 -0400 Original-Received: by mu-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id g7so1711448muf for ; Sun, 23 Sep 2007 07:17:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:received:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:user-agent:date:message-id:mime-version:content-type:sender; bh=ySAs/JwxY1v6Nx/781caOyGon/P92Dy62X1M0cdLAso=; b=eVsK+AHLDZs6s1fCBiXvh1GvVSH/eSH9WfGWYkCCRPRQRI9UeMCuGkqAoqsO+pinqGOOvG4g/Ssx4N7Fn0/FZ+eSljSjOkvWut/3iOeZqfsG9z7CBtKuwl+d+KHGteEARMI2gO7Clw7FwZUJc3jOI3HoAVd1p09awWGTcZ6to1I= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=beta; h=received:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:user-agent:date:message-id:mime-version:content-type:sender; b=lVs0XTdQeip9D7cc0E+xMiDtGlISYlRtFalj12Pas8FE/d55w88uOfgqjanWMTZDGswEFIP4/fyO3DVgpdKI/MtkrsfG5jYZTuZTqpY0mCFQ8qGlKTDYCTcUSKvI/bCIjmTMp5+jRR9PTcPKY4wUbh3e0kefdCJIf0r19e8kuYA= Original-Received: by 10.86.93.17 with SMTP id q17mr3916234fgb.1190557068199; Sun, 23 Sep 2007 07:17:48 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from bzg.ath.cx ( [88.138.197.242]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id j12sm7666334fkf.2007.09.23.07.17.45 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sun, 23 Sep 2007 07:17:46 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by bzg.ath.cx (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 37EBF157998; Sun, 23 Sep 2007 16:17:41 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: <87ejgp7epy.fsf_-_@jurta.org> (Juri Linkov's message of "Sun, 23 Sep 2007 15:03:21 +0300") User-Agent: Gnus/5.110007 (No Gnus v0.7) Emacs/23.0.0 (gnu/linux) X-Detected-Kernel: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:79576 Archived-At: Juri Linkov writes: >> The problem of not being able to find "revert" when we look for >> "refresh" should be solved by a personal help manager, not by the >> navigation system through the documentation. > > Could you elaborate why do you think this should be solved by a > personal help manager? Let's take an example. Imagine someone is looking for the command that add a ChangeLog entry. Here are a few different searching paths he might go through: 1. His first reflex is to go to the Emacs manual. Great! It's there. 2. He thinks he can use `finder-by-keyword' (C-h P) for that. If he is brave enough to go to the end of the list, he will find "tools", then add-log.el, then he will stumble on "This facility is documented in the Emacs Manual." Okay, then he should have gone there first. 3. He is used to `apropos-command' (C-h a). He tries that and look for "ChangeLog". Bad luck. He will find this: log-edit-add-to-changelog M-x ... RET log-edit-insert-changelog M-x ... RET He didn't look for "log" because he thought there would be too many matches (in fact, the first match for this query is okay.) Let's say that he finally found `add-change-log-entry'. Now he might want to find documentation using `Info-goto-emacs-command-node' but C-h F add-change-log-entry doesn't yield any result (though C-h F add-change-log-entry-other-window). In all these three scenarii, all that the user want to access to is: "add a changelog entry" -> "the Change Log manual page in Emacs manual". Scenario 1 is obviously the best one here, but that may not be always the case. He might have to go through something like 2 or 3 for other queries. In fact, different kinds of information live in different places and it would be nice to have a separate place for information that we *already found* in the past. So here is what a personal help manager could store: | searched | found | manual | |-----------------------+----------------------+---------------------------| | Add a ChangeLog entry | add-change-log-entry | (info "(emacs)Change Log) | (This is actually what I'm trying to use inside my org-mode file.) > As I see, in a PIM the user adds a link (or a bookmark) to the > information that the user has already found. This is it. > But how this will help to find a new information? This won't. But this will be a way not to lose information we already found. > I think only adding various index entries including most synonyms > (e.g. "revert", "refresh", "update", ...) will help to find the entry. The main job of the personal help manager would be to be able to find these synonyms. I guess different people would use different synonyms sets (not mentionning language-dependant issues). -- Bastien