bug#3450: 23.0.91; HELLO file: Finnish name for language is "suomi"

bug#3450: 23.0.91; HELLO file: Finnish name for language is "suomi"

[Teemu Likonen]

Here's a minor but easily fixable bug in HELLO file (C-h h). In the file
Finnish name for our language is written in capital letters but it
should be in small letters. Capital "Suomi" means our country; "suomi is
the language. I'd also write "hyvää" in small letters because it doesn't
begin a new sentence. So this would be the correct version:

Finnish (suomi)                 Hei, hyvää päivää
         ^                           ^

Yes, I'm a Finnish teacher. :-)

bug#3450: 23.0.91; HELLO file: Finnish name for language is "suomi"

[Kenichi Handa]

In article <87skiipuu0.fsf@iki.fi>, Teemu Likonen <tlikonen@iki.fi> writes:

> Here's a minor but easily fixable bug in HELLO file (C-h h). In the file
> Finnish name for our language is written in capital letters but it
> should be in small letters. Capital "Suomi" means our country; "suomi is
> the language. I'd also write "hyvää" in small letters because it doesn't
> begin a new sentence. So this would be the correct version:

> Finnish (suomi)                 Hei, hyvää päivää
>          ^                           ^

Thank you.  We'll fix "suomi".  But for "hyvää", I'm not
sure.  That part is not a normal setence but is a listing of
words saying hello, and "," is just a separator of each
independent item.  If that file is written in <TABLE> of
HTML, perhaps we'll format it as this:

<TR><TD>Finnish</TD><TD>suomi</TD><TD>Hei</TD><TD>Hyvää päivää</TD></TR>

Should we downcase "Hyvää" in that case?

---
Kenichi Handa
handa@m17n.org

bug#3450: 23.0.91; HELLO file: Finnish name for language is "suomi"

[Teemu Likonen]

On 2009-06-03 09:42 (+0900), Kenichi Handa wrote:

> Thank you. We'll fix "suomi". But for "hyvää", I'm not sure. That part
> is not a normal setence but is a listing of words saying hello, and
> "," is just a separator of each independent item.

With a comma (,) the most obvious Finnish interpretation is that they
belong to the same sentence. Comma is just a natural Finnish separator
for the greeting ("Hei") and other syntactic content. I understand that
one could say that the HELLO file does not list sentences in different
languages and that the comma is meant to be higher-level separator of
items. But does this meaning reach a human reader? I'd say "no" because
there is already a higher-level separator in each line, namely the tab
cells with the width of 32 characters.

This issue is not something I'd go fighting for too seriously. I'll just
say that I think most Finnish people see that line as a single sentence.

> If that file is written in <TABLE> of HTML, perhaps we'll format it as
> this:
>
> <TR><TD>Finnish</TD><TD>suomi</TD><TD>Hei</TD><TD>Hyvää päivää</TD></TR>
>
> Should we downcase "Hyvää" in that case?

In such context it's quite free. You could write them all small letters
or capitalize only the first letter of item in a table cell, like:

    Finnish     suomi       hei         hyvää päivää

or

    Finnish     suomi       Hei         Hyvää päivää

Just choose the one that fits to the general picture. :-)

bug#3450: 23.0.91; HELLO file: Finnish name for language is "suomi"

[Kenichi Handa]

In article <874oux2a6x.fsf@iki.fi>, Teemu Likonen <tlikonen@iki.fi> writes:

> > If that file is written in <TABLE> of HTML, perhaps we'll format it as
> > this:
> >
> > <TR><TD>Finnish</TD><TD>suomi</TD><TD>Hei</TD><TD>Hyvää päivää</TD></TR>
> >
> > Should we downcase "Hyvää" in that case?

> In such context it's quite free. You could write them all small letters
> or capitalize only the first letter of item in a table cell, like:

>     Finnish     suomi       hei         hyvää päivää

> or

>     Finnish     suomi       Hei         Hyvää päivää

How about modifying the line as this:

Finnish (suomi)	            Hei / Hyvää päivää

Then, it is clear that each of "Hei" and "Hyvää päivää" is
an independent item, isn't it?  I think the other lines
should take this format too.

---
Kenichi Handa
handa@m17n.org

bug#3450: 23.0.91; HELLO file: Finnish name for language is "suomi"

[Teemu Likonen]

On 2009-06-08 21:18 (+0900), Kenichi Handa wrote:

> How about modifying the line as this:
>
> Finnish (suomi)	            Hei / Hyvää päivää
>
> Then, it is clear that each of "Hei" and "Hyvää päivää" is
> an independent item, isn't it?  I think the other lines
> should take this format too.

I'm fine with that.

bug#3450: marked as done (23.0.91; HELLO file: Finnish name for language is "suomi")

[Emacs bug Tracking System]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 895 bytes --]


Your message dated Sat, 13 Jun 2009 23:33:18 +0300
with message-id <87k53fri0h.fsf@iki.fi>
and subject line Re: 23.0.91; HELLO file: Finnish name for language is "suomi"
has caused the Emacs bug report #3450,
regarding 23.0.91; HELLO file: Finnish name for language is "suomi"
to be marked as done.

This means that you claim that the problem has been dealt with.
If this is not the case it is now your responsibility to reopen the
bug report if necessary, and/or fix the problem forthwith.

(NB: If you are a system administrator and have no idea what this
message is talking about, this may indicate a serious mail system
misconfiguration somewhere. Please contact owner@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com
immediately.)


-- 
3450: http://emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=3450
Emacs Bug Tracking System
Contact owner@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com with problems

[-- Attachment #2: Type: message/rfc822, Size: 2585 bytes --]

From: Teemu Likonen <tlikonen@iki.fi>
To: emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org
Subject: 23.0.91; HELLO file: Finnish name for language is "suomi"
Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2009 17:35:19 +0300
Message-ID: <87skiipuu0.fsf@iki.fi>

Here's a minor but easily fixable bug in HELLO file (C-h h). In the file
Finnish name for our language is written in capital letters but it
should be in small letters. Capital "Suomi" means our country; "suomi is
the language. I'd also write "hyvää" in small letters because it doesn't
begin a new sentence. So this would be the correct version:

Finnish (suomi)                 Hei, hyvää päivää
         ^                           ^

Yes, I'm a Finnish teacher. :-)


[-- Attachment #3: Type: message/rfc822, Size: 1818 bytes --]

From: Teemu Likonen <tlikonen@iki.fi>
To: 3450-done@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com
Subject: Re: 23.0.91; HELLO file: Finnish name for language is "suomi"
Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 23:33:18 +0300
Message-ID: <87k53fri0h.fsf@iki.fi>

On 2009-06-02 17:35 (+0300), Teemu Likonen wrote:

> Here's a minor but easily fixable bug in HELLO file (C-h h). In the
> file Finnish name for our language is written in capital letters but
> it should be in small letters. Capital "Suomi" means our country;
> "suomi is the language.

This is fixed now in CVS. I'll close.