From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: arrow keys vs. C-f/b/n/p Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2010 09:53:52 +0200 Organization: Organization?!? Message-ID: <87sk4rwepb.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> References: <87d3w2ncqs.fsf_-_@lola.goethe.zz> <87iq5py7xk.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <83fx0slhxn.fsf@gnu.org> <83pqzwjkn9.fsf@gnu.org> <83mxv0je2b.fsf@gnu.org> <83fx0sjaab.fsf@gnu.org> <83bpbgj718.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1276415664 31313 80.91.229.12 (13 Jun 2010 07:54:24 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2010 07:54:24 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Jun 13 09:54:23 2010 connect(): No such file or directory Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ONi1N-0005Vj-6k for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 13 Jun 2010 09:54:21 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50094 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ONi1M-0005a4-Bh for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 13 Jun 2010 03:54:20 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=55089 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ONi1C-0005YP-0U for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 13 Jun 2010 03:54:11 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ONi1A-0003ut-Ut for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 13 Jun 2010 03:54:10 -0400 Original-Received: from lo.gmane.org ([80.91.229.12]:40078) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ONi1A-0003ug-LI for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 13 Jun 2010 03:54:08 -0400 Original-Received: from list by lo.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ONi15-0005RW-8U for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 13 Jun 2010 09:54:03 +0200 Original-Received: from p5b2c1cfb.dip.t-dialin.net ([91.44.28.251]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 2010 09:54:03 +0200 Original-Received: from dak by p5b2c1cfb.dip.t-dialin.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 2010 09:54:03 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ connect(): No such file or directory Original-Lines: 36 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: p5b2c1cfb.dip.t-dialin.net X-Face: 2FEFf>]>q>2iw=B6, xrUubRI>pR&Ml9=ao@P@i)L:\urd*t9M~y1^:+Y]'C0~{mAl`oQuAl \!3KEIp?*w`|bL5qr,H)LFO6Q=qx~iH4DN; i"; /yuIsqbLLCh/!U#X[S~(5eZ41to5f%E@'ELIi$t^ Vc\LWP@J5p^rst0+('>Er0=^1{]M9!p?&:\z]|;&=NP3AhB!B_bi^]Pfkw User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:hTQMzD+VFioT2pZgZN+kvO1a95w= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:125871 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: Lennart Borgman >> Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 22:07:36 +0200 >> Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org >> >> >  abcde EDCBA xyz >> >  --------- >> > >> > Now, what characters do you think should be displayed with the region >> > face? >> >> >> As I said in another message it would be "abcde CBA", i.e. exactly the >> visual region that you now get when moving with the arrow keys so that >> you get to C. > > But that doesn't make sense: the cursor traverses characters that you > don't paint in the region face, and the region face is put on > characters the cursor didn't move through. I think "that doesn't make sense" will be unavoidable for some narrow meaning of "sense" for some combinations of keypresses in mixed L2R-R2L settings. For me, the behavior makes perfect sense, and is, in some manner, even telling us something beautiful about the structure of texts, just like the equations of Special Relativity as opposed to the equations of Newtonian mechanics "don't make sense" in some view, but tell us something beautiful about the structure of spacetime. We really should not try to define "makes sense" in terms of relations that arise from fundamental properties of unidirectional text. -- David Kastrup