From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: base Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 14:43:05 +0900 Message-ID: <87sk204nme.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <20100822120642.GA1794@muc.de> <87bp8uzu9d.fsf@mithlond.arda> <871v9o7dmf.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87wrrg5rzg.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87r5ho5gyr.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87hbij6hib.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87k4nf7ezq.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <878w3v7dd2.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <83wrrfmljv.fsf@gnu.org> <87d3t75crc.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <8739u265eq.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <83sk22msp4.fsf@gnu.org> <87zkw94qn4.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1282888036 24593 80.91.229.12 (27 Aug 2010 05:47:16 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 05:47:16 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, miles@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Aug 27 07:47:14 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OormQ-0006DZ-GX for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 27 Aug 2010 07:47:10 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49551 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OormP-00027i-JP for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 27 Aug 2010 01:47:09 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=38914 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OormH-00027d-99 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Aug 2010 01:47:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OormG-0003F2-1G for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Aug 2010 01:47:01 -0400 Original-Received: from imss12.cc.tsukuba.ac.jp ([130.158.254.161]:33290) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OormE-0003Eh-DY; Fri, 27 Aug 2010 01:46:58 -0400 Original-Received: from imss12.cc.tsukuba.ac.jp (imss12.cc.tsukuba.ac.jp [127.0.0.1]) by postfix.imss70 (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97824F4003; Fri, 27 Aug 2010 14:46:56 +0900 (JST) Original-Received: from mgmt1.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (unknown [130.158.97.223]) by imss12.cc.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89816F4002; Fri, 27 Aug 2010 14:46:56 +0900 (JST) Original-Received: from uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp [130.158.99.156]) by mgmt1.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 872D73FA0280; Fri, 27 Aug 2010 14:46:56 +0900 (JST) Original-Received: by uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix, from userid 1000) id E6FB54D27A; Fri, 27 Aug 2010 14:43:05 +0900 (JST) In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: VM undefined under 21.5 (beta29) "garbanzo" ed3b274cc037 XEmacs Lucid (x86_64-unknown-linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:129279 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: > Thanks. However, what you wrote just shows once again that we are > talking on two very different levels. Your "user" is actually a > hacker who wants to know and understand a lot about low-level > details of the tool's operation. No. I'm saying that the project needs a few users who understand at that level, and that therefore it is important to have such a model. See my response to =D3scar for details. =D3scar's point about the simplicity of the git model is also relevant. I apologize for not making it clear that I do understand that average users can do fine without deep understanding (but with competent guidance). My main point is that somebody like you who has intervened in the process of recommending workflows really should have a good model. > quite efficiently (no thanks to bzr docs), without having a > slightest idea how it represents the history DAG or what are all > those files in the .bzr subdirectories of my repository. Er, Eli, I didn't mention any of those files (or their analogs in git), and I don't recall the docs I pointed to describing them, although it did mention their existence. > Contrary to what you say, these are, IMO, private data, not public > data; for example, if bzr changes its repository format, I as a > user don't care as long as there's a simple way of upgrading to the > new format. But the point is that often there isn't a simple way. In fact, on one of my platforms I'm currently stuck without a usable bzr because Ubuntu Jaunty provides bzr 1.13, and that doesn't do format 2a, which is required for Launchpad. Upgrading Ubuntu is not an easy option for me, either.