From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Tassilo Horn Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Bundling GNU ELPA packages Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2014 20:30:08 +0100 Message-ID: <87sihwm8jj.fsf@thinkpad-t440p.tsdh.org> References: <878ujowbnh.fsf@thinkpad-t440p.tsdh.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1415302239 24455 80.91.229.3 (6 Nov 2014 19:30:39 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2014 19:30:39 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Nov 06 20:30:33 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XmSlM-0004ke-N6 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2014 20:30:32 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55739 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XmSlM-0004ZN-8r for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2014 14:30:32 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:35717) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XmSlC-0004ZC-CO for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2014 14:30:27 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XmSl6-0005Fc-8X for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2014 14:30:22 -0500 Original-Received: from out2-smtp.messagingengine.com ([66.111.4.26]:53917) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XmSl6-0005FV-4c for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2014 14:30:16 -0500 Original-Received: from compute4.internal (compute4.nyi.internal [10.202.2.44]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF45A20CB6 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2014 14:30:15 -0500 (EST) Original-Received: from frontend2 ([10.202.2.161]) by compute4.internal (MEProxy); Thu, 06 Nov 2014 14:30:15 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=x-sasl-enc:from:to:cc:subject:references :date:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:content-type; s= smtpout; bh=ai2gTSRzX5jF3zecfRtiiibx+wU=; b=TBoL0Dtv6zfdE7KXpiUP N6rPSRaCUzHtDcnclo/3ZQQA+PJ8mk2MINM80Lq002bCMDtLaqcVbr6H34XXPP8I +JlyeELknNaSpGaG3YWrBXTclt3JAbiPD7WlgnaXIVXxc5dQmfTdHdvJrYlSI93u DdhdWQSXR+Lag9AfN5mpabc= X-Sasl-enc: z0TphMSL7vFDMLGW2p69VjMLASl9ioPI6vcieoVIR8UW 1415302214 Original-Received: from thinkpad-t440p.tsdh.org (unknown [2.162.207.173]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 53F776800BE; Thu, 6 Nov 2014 14:30:14 -0500 (EST) Mail-Followup-To: Stefan Monnier , emacs-devel@gnu.org In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Thu, 06 Nov 2014 12:02:00 -0500") User-Agent: Gnus/5.130012 (Ma Gnus v0.12) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 66.111.4.26 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:176472 Archived-At: Stefan Monnier writes: >>> In Emacs-25.1, I'd like to start bundling some GNU ELPA packages >>> into Emacs. >> Now I'm curious. What's the purpose of having a package system and >> then bundling packages? > > I'm sure the XEmacs guys could tell you ;-) So Stephen, if you read that, feel free to elaborate. > Having a package in ELPA means that it can be updated independently > from Emacs. > > Having packages in elpa.git instead of emacs.git makes their release > schedules independent. > > Having bundled packages in both emacs.git and in elpa.git means > 2 branches to keep in sync. Yes, yes, and yes. I understand all those points. What I don't understand is why we don't move org, gnus, and other built-in packages which aren't "super-core" (i.e., not everybody needs them) from emacs.git to elpa.git? Then all points above still apply, and emacs releases are a bit more lightweight. I mean, for fast-evolving packages like org and company, if emacs 25.1 bundles version X, the next day version X+1 is available from ELPA anyway. The only downside I can see is that users upgrading from Emacs 24 to 25 might get startup errors because formerly built-in packages aren't anymore. But that can be documented easily: If you used the built-in org-mode version in Emacs < 25, do 1. emacs -Q 2. M-x package-install RET org RET 3. Now you can restart emacs without -Q Or even better, there could be some hack that when emacs 25.1 is started the first time puts the user in a package manager tutorial that guides him thru the process of installing packages with an emphasis on formerly built-in packages. Bye, Tassilo