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From: "Pascal J. Bourguignon" <pjb@informatimago.com>
To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
Subject: Re: if vs. when vs. and: style question
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2015 19:15:51 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <87sicmwgmw.fsf@kuiper.lan.informatimago.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: mailman.3031.1427729518.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org

Óscar Fuentes <ofv@wanadoo.es> writes:

> Marcin Borkowski <mbork@wmi.amu.edu.pl> writes:
>
>>> Along the same lines, I don't know many programmers whose code is never
>>> passed to a compiler/interpreter but is instead only read by other
>>> human beings.
>>
>> BTW: I think you nailed a serious problem with contemporary mathematics:
>> that machine checking proofs isn't a routine part of the publishing
>> process.  The number of erroneous papers in math journals is
>> horrifying.  Substantial portion of my depatment's seminar is devoted to
>> discussing errors in papers.  Once a colleague found a relatively simple
>> /counterexample/ to a theorem which was a cornerstone of a whole theory
>> (and a basis for several dozen other papers).

Perhaps it's not pertinent in a specific case, but I'd see it as much as
a question of what axioms or inference rules would be needed to prevent
those counter examples, and thus validate the theory developed so far,
as the need to revise the validity of that theorem and its supposed
consequences.



> Yeah, that remembers me of Vladimir Voevodsky's story about why he
> always has a Coq session running nearby.
>
> OTOH I'm afraid that proof assistants can be a hindrance for creative
> work.


Perhaps they should work both way:  

- deduce consequences from axioms (or check deductions), and

- find axioms and deduction rules that would allow a given "chain of
  reasoning" to be a theorem.


If you only knew Euclidian geometry and imagined a triangle whose sum of
angles was 200 degree, you'd want a formal tool to help you infer
spherical geometry's axioms.


-- 
__Pascal Bourguignon__                 http://www.informatimago.com/
“The factory of the future will have only two employees, a man and a
dog. The man will be there to feed the dog. The dog will be there to
keep the man from touching the equipment.” -- Carl Bass CEO Autodesk


  parent reply	other threads:[~2015-03-30 17:15 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 121+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2015-03-23 22:53 if vs. when vs. and: style question Marcin Borkowski
2015-03-24  0:15 ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-24  0:34   ` Drew Adams
2015-03-24  0:22 ` Drew Adams
     [not found] ` <mailman.2648.1427156603.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-24  2:28   ` Emanuel Berg
2015-03-24  6:12     ` Rusi
2015-03-25  0:21       ` Emanuel Berg
2015-03-25  0:20         ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-25  2:44           ` Emanuel Berg
2015-03-25  2:51             ` Rusi
2015-03-25  7:12               ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-25 14:02                 ` Rusi
2015-03-25 14:40                   ` Stefan Monnier
2015-03-25 14:52                   ` if vs. when vs. and: style question now Unicode Dan Espen
2015-03-25 15:24                     ` Rusi
2015-03-25 15:46                       ` Dan Espen
2015-03-25 16:02                         ` Rusi
2015-03-25 17:16                           ` Dan Espen
2015-03-28 17:55                           ` Emanuel Berg
2015-03-25 17:46                         ` Rusi
2015-03-25 15:22                   ` if vs. when vs. and: style question Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-25 15:37                     ` Rusi
2015-03-29  1:17                       ` Emanuel Berg
2015-03-25 15:45                     ` Rusi
2015-03-29  1:03                     ` Emanuel Berg
2015-03-29  2:41                       ` Rusi
2015-03-29  3:11                         ` Rusi
2015-03-29 14:05                         ` Óscar Fuentes
2015-03-29 16:00                           ` Drew Adams
2015-03-30  1:55                             ` Óscar Fuentes
     [not found]                             ` <mailman.2998.1427680540.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-30  2:25                               ` Rusi
2015-03-29 18:27                         ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-30  0:09                           ` Stefan Monnier
2015-03-30  1:33                             ` Óscar Fuentes
2015-03-30  1:50                               ` Stefan Monnier
2015-03-30  9:44                               ` tomas
2015-03-30 11:46                                 ` Óscar Fuentes
     [not found]                                 ` <mailman.3016.1427716011.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-30 13:03                                   ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-30 14:18                                     ` Stefan Monnier
2015-03-30 15:21                                       ` Marcin Borkowski
2015-03-30 15:31                                         ` Óscar Fuentes
     [not found]                                         ` <mailman.3031.1427729518.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-30 17:15                                           ` Pascal J. Bourguignon [this message]
     [not found]                                       ` <mailman.3030.1427728904.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-31  6:26                                         ` Reality and Proofs (was if vs. when vs. and: style question) Rusi
     [not found]                               ` <mailman.3010.1427708687.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-30 12:59                                 ` if vs. when vs. and: style question Pascal J. Bourguignon
     [not found]                         ` <mailman.2972.1427637975.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-30  1:55                           ` Rusi
     [not found]                   ` <mailman.2749.1427294481.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-25 15:33                     ` Rusi
2015-03-25 15:36                       ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-25 16:06                         ` Drew Adams
     [not found]                         ` <mailman.2751.1427299594.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-25 16:19                           ` Rusi
2015-03-25 16:23                             ` Rusi
2015-03-29  1:24                             ` Emanuel Berg
2015-03-25 17:02                           ` Dan Espen
2015-03-25 18:23                             ` Drew Adams
     [not found]                             ` <mailman.2758.1427307846.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-25 18:52                               ` Dan Espen
2015-03-26  9:47                                 ` Gian Uberto Lauri
     [not found]                                 ` <mailman.2799.1427363259.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-26 10:24                                   ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-26 10:28                                     ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-26 10:47                                       ` Unicode in source (Was Re: if vs. when vs. and: style question) Gian Uberto Lauri
     [not found]                                       ` <mailman.2802.1427366873.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-26 15:54                                         ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-26 17:07                                           ` Gian Uberto Lauri
     [not found]                                           ` <mailman.2824.1427389660.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-26 17:16                                             ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-26 10:43                                     ` if vs. when vs. and: style question Gian Uberto Lauri
2015-03-26 13:02                                       ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-04-01 22:03                                   ` Emanuel Berg
2015-04-01 22:24                                     ` Emanuel Berg
2015-03-29 23:06                                 ` Emanuel Berg
2015-03-25 19:17                               ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-25 20:31                                 ` Drew Adams
2015-03-25 22:21                                   ` Richard Wordingham
2015-03-25 23:21                                     ` Drew Adams
2015-03-25 23:52                                       ` Richard Wordingham
     [not found]                                     ` <mailman.2782.1427325697.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-26  3:02                                       ` Rusi
2015-03-26 10:01                                         ` Gian Uberto Lauri
     [not found]                                         ` <mailman.2800.1427364117.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-26 13:00                                           ` Rusi
2015-03-26 13:28                                             ` Gian Uberto Lauri
     [not found]                                             ` <mailman.2809.1427376497.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-26 15:51                                               ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-26 16:21                                                 ` Gian Uberto Lauri
     [not found]                                   ` <mailman.2779.1427322080.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-04-01  2:31                                     ` Emanuel Berg
2015-04-01  3:03                                       ` Rusi
2015-04-01 14:29                                         ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-04-01 14:57                                           ` Rusi
     [not found]                                 ` <mailman.2771.1427315503.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-26  4:23                                   ` Rusi
2015-03-25 19:20                               ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-26 11:37                                 ` Alan Schmitt
2015-03-30  1:20                                 ` Emanuel Berg
2015-03-30  2:43                                   ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-30  3:12                                     ` Rusi
2015-03-25 17:49                           ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-25 18:09                             ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found]                             ` <mailman.2756.1427307016.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-25 21:27                               ` Rusi
2015-03-25 21:32                                 ` Rusi
2015-03-31 16:49                                   ` Emanuel Berg
2015-03-31 17:22                                     ` Rusi
2015-04-01 18:08                                     ` Emanuel Berg
2015-04-01 20:01                                       ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-27  3:54                           ` Emanuel Berg
2015-03-27  7:59                             ` Gian Uberto Lauri
2015-03-27  8:06                               ` tomas
2015-03-27  8:11                                 ` Gian Uberto Lauri
2015-03-27  9:20                                   ` tomas
2015-03-27  9:31                                     ` Gian Uberto Lauri
     [not found]                               ` <mailman.2860.1427443603.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-27 12:41                                 ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-27 13:05                                   ` tomas
     [not found]                                   ` <mailman.2875.1427461540.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-27 13:35                                     ` Rusi
2015-03-27 12:34                             ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-27  0:49                   ` Emanuel Berg
2015-03-27  7:53                     ` Gian Uberto Lauri
     [not found]                     ` <mailman.2856.1427442800.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-27  8:56                       ` Joost Kremers
2015-03-27 12:19                       ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-27 14:20                     ` Rusi
2015-03-25  2:35         ` Rusi
2015-03-27  0:31           ` Emanuel Berg
2015-03-27 21:27             ` Emanuel Berg
2015-03-27 22:54               ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-28  1:16                 ` Rusi
2015-03-28 12:47                   ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-24 15:18     ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-25  0:44       ` Emanuel Berg
2015-03-24  7:21 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
     [not found] ` <mailman.2659.1427181547.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-25  0:34   ` Emanuel Berg
     [not found] <mailman.2645.1427151196.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-23 23:19 ` Emanuel Berg

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