From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Tassilo Horn Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Upcoming loss of usability of Emacs source files and Emacs. Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2015 08:21:20 +0200 Message-ID: <87si9qonxb.fsf@gnu.org> References: <20150615142237.GA3517@acm.fritz.box> <87y4jkhqh5.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <557F3C22.4060909@cs.ucla.edu> <5580D356.4050708@cs.ucla.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1434522114 4135 80.91.229.3 (17 Jun 2015 06:21:54 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2015 06:21:54 +0000 (UTC) Cc: acm@muc.de, stephen@xemacs.org, rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Paul Eggert Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Jun 17 08:21:44 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Z56jC-0006zG-Tp for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 17 Jun 2015 08:21:39 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:44533 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Z56jB-0003ff-OS for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 17 Jun 2015 02:21:37 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:47539) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Z56j0-0003fO-5u for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 17 Jun 2015 02:21:26 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Z56iw-0003jB-5d for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 17 Jun 2015 02:21:26 -0400 Original-Received: from deliver.uni-koblenz.de ([141.26.64.15]:52918) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Z56iv-0003j2-Vd; Wed, 17 Jun 2015 02:21:22 -0400 Original-Received: from thinkpad-t440p (dhcp126.uni-koblenz.de [141.26.71.126]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by deliver.uni-koblenz.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 430B01A8390; Wed, 17 Jun 2015 08:21:21 +0200 (CEST) Mail-Followup-To: Paul Eggert , rms@gnu.org, acm@muc.de, stephen@xemacs.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org In-Reply-To: <5580D356.4050708@cs.ucla.edu> (Paul Eggert's message of "Tue, 16 Jun 2015 18:54:30 -0700") User-Agent: Gnus/5.130014 (Ma Gnus v0.14) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 141.26.64.15 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:187230 Archived-At: Paul Eggert writes: >> It is good to _permit_ putting non-ASCII characters in strings and >> comments, as we do; but Lisp code (including its normal conventions) >> shouldn't require use of such characters. > > This shouldn't be a problem. The approach in Emacs master does not > require the use of non-ASCII characters in source-code docstrings or > diagnostics, and further changes along these lines should still > support ASCII-only strings and comments containing quoted symbols that > continue to work as before. But with respect to the coding conventions Oleh cited, it is true that the use of =E2=80=98foo-bar=E2=80=99 instead of `foo-bar' is at least encou= raged for lisp docstrings (and comments) although both will be displayed like the former with describe-*, right? To me, having two alternative ways to name lisp symbols in docstrings is even worse than switching from `...' to =E2=80=98...=E2=80=99 in the first = place [1]. I'd rather declare the former obsolete and make checkdoc bark at it to get to some uniformity as soon as possible (which might mean in a bit less than a decade). [1] But I agree with Drew that the `...' in `foo-bar' isn't quoting but a markup which unambiguously says "foo-bar is a symbol." In contrast, =E2=80=98foo-bar=E2=80=99 is ambiguous. It could be a quote = or a symbol. Well, of course there aren't too many quotes in lisp files so this problem probably isn't too relevant in practice. Bye, Tassilo