From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Upcoming loss of usability of Emacs source files and Emacs. Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2015 13:07:04 +0900 Message-ID: <87si9pfymv.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <20150615142237.GA3517@acm.fritz.box> <87y4jkhqh5.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <557F3C22.4060909@cs.ucla.edu> <5580D356.4050708@cs.ucla.edu> <87si9qonxb.fsf@gnu.org> <5581156A.805@cs.ucla.edu> <87d20uoj3v.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1434600448 13974 80.91.229.3 (18 Jun 2015 04:07:28 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2015 04:07:28 +0000 (UTC) Cc: acm@muc.de, Paul Eggert , rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Tassilo Horn Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Jun 18 06:07:20 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Z5R6k-0001IG-Lz for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 18 Jun 2015 06:07:18 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:50128 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Z5R6j-0000ff-T2 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 18 Jun 2015 00:07:17 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:38576) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Z5R6f-0000fa-Uw for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 18 Jun 2015 00:07:14 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Z5R6a-0003GT-Ry for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 18 Jun 2015 00:07:13 -0400 Original-Received: from shako.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp ([130.158.97.161]:42349) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Z5R6a-0003G5-IF; Thu, 18 Jun 2015 00:07:08 -0400 Original-Received: from uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp [130.158.99.156]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by shako.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8AB781C38B4; Thu, 18 Jun 2015 13:07:04 +0900 (JST) Original-Received: by uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 6F3001A2CA2; Thu, 18 Jun 2015 13:07:04 +0900 (JST) In-Reply-To: <87d20uoj3v.fsf@gnu.org> X-Mailer: VM undefined under 21.5 (beta34) "kale" 83e5c3cd6be6 XEmacs Lucid (x86_64-unknown-linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 130.158.97.161 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:187255 Archived-At: Tassilo Horn writes: > Well, there could be >=20 > (defun foo-bar () > "Computes the Foo-Bar sequence. > For a description of the Foo-Bar sequence, see > =E2=80=98Foo-Bar=E2=80=99, John Doe et al., Proceedings on Foo Bar, 2012= ." > ...) >=20 > where =E2=80=98Foo-Bar=E2=80=99 is a real quote rather than a symbol mar= kup. Of > courses, such cases are probably rare but still there's a point in > having symbol markup separated from quoting. (Well, ok, then the > above quote should simply be changed to =E2=80=9CFoo-Bar=E2=80=9D and we= 're good > again.) Use of double quotes in this context is the standard convention for U.S. academics, so to that extent it's even less common than you suggest. Nevertheless, we should permit single quotes. Then \-escaping will allow you to specify that the quote is not syntactically significant, as usual. I don't really see a difference between "=E2=80=98" and "`" for this purpos= e, which is why I can only give lukewarm support to the proposal. I consider double quotes (for trings and the like) a much more important direction. But that's a much bigger step, which could easily prove infeasible. Paul's patch is a small step toward exploiting the possibilities for improved syntax via Unicode that doesn't give us much, but if Alan, Drew, and RMS are right, it isn't going to hurt anybody much while we're trying it, either. I expect this experiment to produce both negative and positive surprises -- that's why we do experiments, after all -- because the results occasionally surprise us!