From: taylanbayirli@gmail.com (Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer)
To: emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH] Add shell-quasiquote.
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 10:38:44 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <87si56j5nv.fsf@T420.taylan> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <m2fv1654z2.fsf@newartisans.com> (John Wiegley's message of "Tue, 20 Oct 2015 01:17:21 -0700")
"John Wiegley" <johnw@newartisans.com> writes:
>>>>>> David Kastrup <dak@gnu.org> writes:
>
>> You don't need to speak in riddles. I am quite used to seeing my name
>> explicitly written in such contexts.
>
> I've found your contributions to be quite helpful on the whole, David.
>
> Lately I've heard and read many things about emacs-devel's "culture" and how
> it stifles newcomers. This is something to take seriously, but I don't think
> the issue should be over-simplified just to find a place to put blame.
>
> We're a lot of people. We have a lot of experiences. This is no one's full-
> time job. We all communicate differently.
>
> Given those truths: as soon as the number of people involved becomes >large,
> any perception you choose to adopt of such a group will generally be true in
> some ways, and false in several other ways.
>
> Some of the concrete problems I've heard about that could be meaningfully
> addressed are:
>
> 1. Some patches die in the bug tracker. They get submitted; the authors
> respond to the criticism; but there is no closure. This gives people the
> impression that their efforts are being wasted on Emacs development, so
> they move elsewhere.
>
> 2. Sometimes people can be abrasive. This isn't something you can solve by
> mandate, or by posting a code of conduct. It requires a willingness on
> the part of participants to assume the best of others, and not expect
> them to do all the work revealing it.
>
> There could be things we might do here, like making the list passively
> moderated so we can silence egregious posters. But I haven't seen
> anything yet to warrant this type of response.
>
> 3. Newcomers don't understand our culture. If you've grown up in the fast-
> paced GitHub world of one button PRs and brief discussions on Twitter,
> the culture and pace of emacs-devel may well shock you. Some of us are
> OLD, and we like our lawns kid-free a goodly part of the time.
>
> Now that is no excuse for bad manners, but it does mean we don't just
> "hop to it" when a shiny toy comes along. Be patient, give us time. And
> maybe, if your patch is withering on the vine, remind someone?
>
> I think we have good people, who pay attention to meaningful issues. Not
> everything we do needs to be instantly appealing to those unfamiliar with our
> history of development. But if it's needlessly off-putting, that should be
> brought up and remedied too.
>
> John
For those interested in this topic, please also read my response to
another mail by John on the bug#21702 thread. I'm afraid there was a
big misunderstanding in, at least, the reasons for my frustration.
I don't know whether the points mentioned above (people being used to
*faster* paced communication than e-d) apply to other cases of
contributor frustration, but I suspect that it's a red herring.
Taylan
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2015-10-20 8:38 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 211+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2015-10-17 16:33 [PATCH] Add shell-quasiquote Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-17 16:53 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-17 17:14 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-17 17:28 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-17 18:23 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-17 19:09 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-17 20:28 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-17 20:44 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-10-17 21:25 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-17 21:32 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-10-17 22:00 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-18 7:55 ` Michael Albinus
2015-10-18 10:07 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-18 10:55 ` Michael Albinus
2015-10-18 12:59 ` Random832
2015-10-18 13:36 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-18 15:06 ` Michael Albinus
2015-10-18 17:32 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-18 19:17 ` Random832
2015-10-18 19:52 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-19 4:32 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-10-19 5:15 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-19 5:19 ` Daniel Colascione
2015-10-19 5:56 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-19 8:16 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-31 17:03 ` Kai Großjohann
2015-10-31 16:50 ` Kai Großjohann
2015-10-31 19:03 ` Michael Albinus
2015-10-17 22:09 ` Random832
2015-10-17 22:45 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-17 20:47 ` Paul Eggert
2015-10-17 21:20 ` Random832
2015-10-17 21:35 ` Paul Eggert
2015-10-17 21:27 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-17 21:53 ` Paul Eggert
2015-10-17 22:22 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-18 2:40 ` Paul Eggert
2015-10-18 10:03 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-18 15:54 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-18 16:40 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-18 17:48 ` John Wiegley
2015-10-18 2:47 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-18 13:35 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-17 19:14 ` Random832
2015-10-17 19:44 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-17 20:43 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-17 21:01 ` Random832
2015-10-17 17:23 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-10-17 18:11 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-17 18:42 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-10-19 12:35 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-19 12:59 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-19 13:09 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-19 13:48 ` Random832
2015-10-19 13:53 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-19 15:10 ` Paul Eggert
2015-10-19 17:06 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-20 1:41 ` Paul Eggert
2015-10-20 7:41 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-20 10:16 ` Nicolas Richard
2015-10-20 15:47 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-10-20 16:41 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-20 16:59 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-10-20 17:32 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-20 17:41 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-10-20 17:58 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-20 18:11 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-10-20 18:19 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-20 23:34 ` Contributors and maintainers (Was: [PATCH] Add shell-quasiquote.) John Wiegley
2015-10-21 7:29 ` Contributors and maintainers Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-21 8:27 ` Werner LEMBERG
2015-10-21 8:45 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-21 12:03 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-21 14:22 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-21 14:40 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-21 16:05 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-21 18:16 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-10-21 18:37 ` John Wiegley
2015-10-21 14:34 ` Tassilo Horn
2015-10-21 16:53 ` John Wiegley
2015-10-21 17:24 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-21 18:49 ` John Wiegley
2015-10-21 14:07 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-21 14:36 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-21 15:44 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-21 16:23 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-21 17:22 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-21 17:41 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-21 19:58 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-21 21:21 ` John Wiegley
2015-10-21 23:12 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-22 14:38 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-21 14:45 ` Jay Belanger
2015-10-21 17:05 ` John Wiegley
2015-10-21 17:46 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-21 18:12 ` John Wiegley
2015-10-21 18:19 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-21 18:18 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-10-21 18:54 ` John Wiegley
2015-10-22 5:40 ` Maintainers and contributors (was: Contributors and maintainers) John Wiegley
2015-10-22 7:20 ` Maintainers and contributors David Kastrup
2015-10-22 10:34 ` Maintainers and contributors (was: Contributors and maintainers) Artur Malabarba
2015-10-22 11:08 ` Maintainers and contributors David Kastrup
2015-10-22 11:55 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-10-22 12:04 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-10-22 12:32 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-22 15:10 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-22 18:27 ` John Wiegley
2015-10-22 19:08 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-10-22 23:37 ` John Wiegley
2015-10-23 0:37 ` Jay Belanger
2015-10-22 18:58 ` Jay Belanger
2015-10-21 3:25 ` [PATCH] Add shell-quasiquote Random832
2015-10-21 4:30 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-21 14:05 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-21 14:18 ` Random832
2015-10-21 14:40 ` Michael Albinus
2015-10-21 16:19 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-21 16:37 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-21 17:18 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-21 17:06 ` Random832
2015-10-21 17:32 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-21 18:11 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-10-21 18:24 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-26 12:58 ` Steinar Bang
2015-10-21 18:24 ` Wolfgang Jenkner
2015-10-21 18:44 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-21 18:57 ` Wolfgang Jenkner
2015-10-21 19:10 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-21 19:30 ` John Wiegley
2015-10-22 10:54 ` Wolfgang Jenkner
2015-10-22 11:21 ` Jeff Clough
2015-10-22 12:47 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-22 15:11 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-22 15:23 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-22 15:51 ` Andreas Schwab
2015-10-22 13:09 ` Wolfgang Jenkner
2015-10-22 15:03 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-22 15:12 ` David Kastrup
2015-11-06 23:35 ` Kai Großjohann
2015-11-07 7:51 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-22 15:41 ` Paul Eggert
2015-10-22 15:52 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-22 17:25 ` Wolfgang Jenkner
2015-10-21 18:11 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-21 18:49 ` Random832
2015-10-21 19:03 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-21 19:10 ` Random832
2015-10-21 19:21 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-21 19:50 ` Random832
2015-10-22 2:38 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-22 7:03 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-22 13:41 ` Random832
2015-10-22 13:53 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-22 14:41 ` Random832
2015-10-22 14:50 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-22 16:18 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-10-22 15:20 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-11-01 18:39 ` Kai Großjohann
2015-11-01 20:39 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-11-01 22:34 ` Michael Albinus
2015-10-20 19:00 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-20 19:48 ` Werner LEMBERG
2015-10-20 20:47 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-20 21:08 ` Werner LEMBERG
2015-10-21 14:09 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-21 18:22 ` John Wiegley
2015-10-20 16:21 ` Paul Eggert
2015-10-20 17:11 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-20 17:22 ` Paul Eggert
2015-10-20 17:36 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-20 18:12 ` Paul Eggert
2015-10-20 18:21 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-20 18:55 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-22 3:35 ` Paul Eggert
2015-10-19 13:22 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-19 13:36 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-19 13:56 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-19 13:41 ` Artur Malabarba
2015-10-19 13:43 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-19 13:55 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-10-19 14:09 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-19 15:13 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-10-19 17:08 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-19 17:11 ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-10-19 17:46 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-20 4:35 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-10-20 7:26 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-20 7:55 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-20 8:17 ` John Wiegley
2015-10-20 8:38 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer [this message]
2015-10-20 12:48 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-20 11:45 ` Becoming an Emacs contributor (was: [PATCH] Add shell-quasiquote.) Óscar Fuentes
2015-10-20 12:56 ` Becoming an Emacs contributor Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-20 16:26 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-20 17:32 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-20 17:41 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-20 17:53 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-20 17:53 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-20 18:44 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-20 19:12 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-24 17:26 ` Nix
2015-10-20 16:47 ` Becoming an Emacs contributor (was: [PATCH] Add shell-quasiquote.) Kaushal Modi
2015-10-20 8:34 ` [PATCH] Add shell-quasiquote Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-20 8:49 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-20 8:54 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-20 15:40 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-20 16:31 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-20 16:51 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-20 17:28 ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-20 18:02 ` Eli Zaretskii
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