From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Dmitri Paduchikh Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#24577: 25.1; Proposal to improve C-u C-h c behavior Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2016 13:38:45 +0500 Message-ID: <87shsgv4yy.fsf@gmail.com> References: <87zimovf4z.fsf@gmail.com> <878tu8zkx3.fsf@violet.siamics.net> <83bmz4mudt.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1475311177 17045 195.159.176.226 (1 Oct 2016 08:39:37 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2016 08:39:37 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: 24577@debbugs.gnu.org, Ivan Shmakov To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Oct 01 10:39:33 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bqFpD-0001if-D6 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; 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Sat, 01 Oct 2016 08:39:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 24577) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Oct 2016 08:38:55 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40238 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bqFot-0000kH-5Z for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 01 Oct 2016 04:38:55 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-lf0-f52.google.com ([209.85.215.52]:32955) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bqFor-0000k2-Bv for 24577@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 01 Oct 2016 04:38:53 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-lf0-f52.google.com with SMTP id t81so55681304lfe.0 for <24577@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 01 Oct 2016 01:38:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=5RE3SHh9E0LE4pyijl0OSNd0IloWSxwV5Sdex8bBTzI=; b=I0tmVL/seUdhigawmEGKAiG+c8vd7nrGhISn3vhmopBEQeS1gLfyJZJrGPfG7egjvK VCR+77/mk9ZbnYF/ZWRC5K09OUxGFcaZvT11sRm+vExUDS0Fhi9Ukxrpq1d8YmdnKbIg sV9iJZyod4rhU2gsH/VGrZny1j2MYp2eWdVv06NRrXbiADbY0L2OxN4KyTieEZnkck6M k7dKZcDNhG5fzyuWUZLtY6/tLj6/M2zk2z8RQREoBaXTrBvwh/VjY9gOxWs+p7leAX5A g3wC1fK3gAknKsd2h4pqtjyNzn/gvwh4LGVRjVc9MzdumLhecw/FqKtC+UAozsW8UFSf 7mPA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=5RE3SHh9E0LE4pyijl0OSNd0IloWSxwV5Sdex8bBTzI=; b=cnlM4C9g2wSz3cEdID/+iR3AKKbfcpmuvIrNSdoo2oHLgcz6nv+PlvBAMUh8/DbIWv qFH0DEt3L5ZkSTnl8Na2ffzT1p0bNU4YmtXpfDENsduZO1Tcy5fFvZkseOqfRvS09Hjz RKgCQretSqn5EYvjbUnumYNBslieZwaq4olRuFCxBaQY6Xuve5uwIxOdr5GReOb3r06Q Y9cd0KbNl2cwl0R9Rv7WeUMeB6GJgU2SI3cXchJZZkiUiq/MzTAP+L3VeqqD69ziaJJA uSI6Y4JO2JJZ/1Fs87WwS+Qlhk1lt/Ga2ow1L3+lKEHA8u16TE0TRJ4AzA/JfWhWDWy6 thzA== X-Gm-Message-State: AA6/9RlADulyVGKXscp/ewtJm6FJ2l0wafoGbcJ6e55Xz2bZVQPVdYH2xrcn/1nolNT2EQ== X-Received: by 10.25.16.66 with SMTP id f63mr2251118lfi.178.1475311127451; Sat, 01 Oct 2016 01:38:47 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from gmail.com ([46.48.49.226]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 23sm303633ljf.9.2016.10.01.01.38.46 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Sat, 01 Oct 2016 01:38:46 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <83bmz4mudt.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sat, 01 Oct 2016 09:54:38 +0300") X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 208.118.235.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:123823 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> From: Ivan Shmakov >> Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2016 05:40:40 +0000 >> Cc: Dmitri Paduchikh >>=20 >> >>>>> Dmitri Paduchikh writes: >>=20 >> > C-u C-h c does not work in read-only buffers. And even if the buffer >> > is writable it's rarely an appropriate place to insert info about key >> > bindings. I think it would be better if C-u C-h c placed its output >> > into kill ring and printed it in the echo area instead of the current >> > behavior. >>=20 >> I believe that this behavior is a common idiom in Emacs. >> For example, M-! date RET shows the current date and time in >> echo area, while C-u M-! date RET inserts it at point =E2=80=93 wi= th >> both actions making sense depending on the situation. There is a difference here. You are calling C-u M-! at the place where you want its output, whereas C-u C-h c has to be called at the place when the key is defined, and that place is rarely the same where you want to insert the key description. >> I guess C-u C-h c behavior is mainly useful when writing about >> Emacs itself (including writing bug reports, or conversing on >> IRC, etc.), but I can easily see it being handy nevertheless. I agree that main use of C-u C-h c is when writing about Emacs itself, but the part about being handy nevertheless I didn't understand. I didn't propose to remove it, just make it more handy. >> Also, for read-only buffers, one can use C-h c without C-u, and >> then copy the result from the *Messages* buffer. In other words, you are suggesting not to use C-u C-h c and simply work around the issue. But since you prefer not to use it, then you won't suffer from the behavior change. >> On the other hand, I=E2=80=99m not aware of any of Emacs commands = adding >> the result of some operation directly to the kill ring. I have seen the proposed behavior in emacs-w3m where w3m-print-this-url behaves in this manner. It is convenient. Please note that message in the echo area may contain the indication that the description has been copied into kill ring. I think this would remove any possible confusion. EZ> 100% agreement. Regards, Dmitri Paduchikh