From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: nljlistbox2@gmail.com (N. Jackson) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#32047: 26.1; Misleading/confusing text about `C-k' in TUTORIAL Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2018 15:46:07 -0400 Message-ID: <87sh4p4ku8.fsf@moondust.localdomain> References: <87o9fn2386.fsf@moondust.localdomain> <83h8l5g3ac.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1531338310 2505 195.159.176.226 (11 Jul 2018 19:45:10 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2018 19:45:10 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.1.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: 32047@debbugs.gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Jul 11 21:45:05 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fdL2v-0000YY-01 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 11 Jul 2018 21:45:05 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55223 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fdL51-0003Ct-St for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 11 Jul 2018 15:47:15 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:52756) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fdL4u-0003Cd-JS for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 11 Jul 2018 15:47:09 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fdL4p-00064M-MD for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 11 Jul 2018 15:47:08 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.43]:48034) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fdL4p-00064E-Iv for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 11 Jul 2018 15:47:03 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fdL4o-0000Cb-07 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 11 Jul 2018 15:47:03 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: nljlistbox2@gmail.com (N. 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[184.149.38.253]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id w79-v6sm18120856qkw.35.2018.07.11.12.46.23 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Wed, 11 Jul 2018 12:46:24 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <83h8l5g3ac.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Wed, 11 Jul 2018 19:12:11 +0300") X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 208.118.235.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:148450 Archived-At: At 19:12 +0300 on Wednesday 2018-07-11, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > >> From: nljlistbox2@gmail.com (N. Jackson) >> Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2018 21:34:33 -0400 >> >> 414 >> Move the cursor to the beginning of a line which is not empty. >> 415 Then type C-k to kill the text on that line. >> 416 >> Type C-k a second time. You'll see that it kills the Newline >> 417 which follows that line. >> 418 >> 419 Note that a single C-k kills the contents of the line, and a second >> 420 C-k kills the line itself, and makes all the other lines move up. C-k >> 421 treats a numeric argument specially: it kills that many lines AND >> 422 their contents. This is not mere repetition. C-u 2 C-k kills two >> 423 lines and their Newlines; typing C-k twice would not do that. >> >> The example(s) given in Lines 414 to 417 are correct. But the >> sentence beginning on Line 419 is misleading. It is only true >> when point is at the beginning of the line. > > But in this case, point _is_ at the beginning of the line, > isn't it? No. Well, maybe! If the paragraph beginning at Line 419 is talking about the preceding example, then yes, point is at the beginning of the line and the first sentence is okay. My reading of the paragraph was that it was talking about C-k in general, not specifically about the preceding example. A reading borne out by the following sentences about numeric arguments which do not feature in the example. Perhaps this is all that would be needed to make this clear: In the preceding example note that a single C-k ... > So I wonder whether it is worth it to complicate the text just > for accuracy's sake? No, I don't think it makes sense to add any more complication here. This is the tutorial, not the documentation, after all. In fact, the discussion of C-k is more complicated, I think, than anything else in the tutorial, and it might be an improvement to drop the discussion of subtle difference in behaviour of C-k with numeric arguments -- the actual behaviour then is easy to understand when one uses it and it doesn't seem that the tutorial is the place to belabour this point.