From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: YUE Daian Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Time to consider/try Helm? Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2018 11:55:43 +0800 Message-ID: <87sh0k3zgg.fsf@work.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me> References: <87muqsiooh.fsf@mbork.pl> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1541130854 15698 195.159.176.226 (2 Nov 2018 03:54:14 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2018 03:54:14 +0000 (UTC) Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org To: Marcin Borkowski Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Nov 02 04:54:10 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gIQXC-0003zM-Iy for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 02 Nov 2018 04:54:10 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:49296 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gIQZI-0002lg-W7 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 01 Nov 2018 23:56:21 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:50923) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gIQYq-0002kw-Om for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 01 Nov 2018 23:55:53 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gIQYn-0007vO-EY for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 01 Nov 2018 23:55:52 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pl1-x62a.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::62a]:46587) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gIQYn-0007uh-5H for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 01 Nov 2018 23:55:49 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-pl1-x62a.google.com with SMTP id c13-v6so343292plz.13 for ; Thu, 01 Nov 2018 20:55:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:date:message-id:mime-version; bh=bSALbgjksD76E86eE1DgqIrUuPJBHbybe5qcuMStokA=; b=jxvI9VV+m8ukrqLnYUSMg8erFjRUobBo9zYxkmJu7qX44oO2Mlb2RG6foE9YybRbH8 yzpaWSDDZjbSwrCGQc/wedH4jaXljd4es/IKjqajxtnvqexoZVn//W99LfJpVVT9CbMs pOxr4rppp/CBZ2DTvl9D7MDCbEHEJDz+/XJCJ2x5j0LNN9dtbMpXUflOpioBG8kJIcbu fItCVFZozmBjwlXDQ4tz9j+xo7TCcG+qN7sUclbLXfibLuBt9IpL1BxgIqvhjgErYwXt 0Y5STeb2jQLzyTq8c1NDJ7+o0VJpbdRyFGZCuxqH+/bhO4tHcIAtuP/UU7xc9XtEJTAh FabQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:date:message-id :mime-version; bh=bSALbgjksD76E86eE1DgqIrUuPJBHbybe5qcuMStokA=; b=Bt2EN4vwUc4K3Nci3LXyvAyr6MpmI36y98Ttxqhd84I/kauOH/Rl63MDm9vo6WyAlP 9NKqpr649sYmGT3qsHCN7ewISLgI2rFyRtGhNi4DLOBkuhgGBXk7tv8YgwaM02d+bebU 8Ftz0Pv+KTLpru274mCAYeMhl+83xuq9PfX3MUZOtmNaCRNhfz44wOYhn7hCoyskkNEt 9kPciPrP4nzmzG++mdIVhD0MzrXDUBo0OBJUBglpozyfpoeqXabCCmr2X7LWo85+PXSH FZgWBNGwu7CnWYq9LTmvvSD8ZjhuD7LT6RwRNiPwqecV7FM1cMMBPhKrKI36k3RvP6Ly QIVg== X-Gm-Message-State: AGRZ1gKFkpzGHdGmVAmqYogMeWntIN/9BhK/5vR83EwW9rXIBQ9w7j2V G/yWNGpHgz4fn0Sl308lM2Q= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AJdET5echqco/UCZOPtJ5PEk9PBB7XRTuvpQO2aH0ZvLTvEMuvbtMCm4O9tm4zZOdoPmhAkXOu8u0Q== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:b106:: with SMTP id q6-v6mr10195192plr.238.1541130947377; Thu, 01 Nov 2018 20:55:47 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from localhost ([118.201.58.126]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id f68-v6sm76521802pfe.143.2018.11.01.20.55.45 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 01 Nov 2018 20:55:46 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <87muqsiooh.fsf@mbork.pl> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4864:20::62a X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:118553 Archived-At: On 2018-11-01 20:27, Marcin Borkowski wrote: > On 2018-10-31, at 12:23, YUE Daian wrote: > >>> Ivy can do these things, too. >> >> Sure. And dramatically after I tried Ivy since yesterday, I have already >> uninstalled helm... > > Wow, that escalated quickly. > You know, since everyone here recommends Ivy I was really curious about it. And after trying it I think it is really good :-D >> Thank you guys, for helping me find a new tool that suits my taste more. > > As someone who used both Helm and Ivy, could you summarize the key > differences? I don't think I'm going to switch to Helm;-), but I'm just > curious. > Sure. Both are excellent and I think the choice between them more likes personal taste. - Complexity. Helm defines a set of operation logic while Ivy completes your habit in Emacs life. For example by default is used as invoke-action instead of performing completion in Helm. You have to configure much to make it behave in the way you like. - Helm is more integrated. It contains literally every single bit of Emacs functions, e.g. calculator. On the contrary Ivy is more distributed thus feels more light-weight. IMO it is really funny to integrate calculator in Helm. - Helm uses buffer to display its information, while Ivy uses mini-buffer. This may lead to very different experience. Sometimes C-g cannot fully quit current operation in Helm because the usage of window. This problem never happens in my (limited) Ivy life. - Speed. My brief feeling is that Helm is slower most of the time, but helm-ag rocks counsel-ag really hard. Also when dealing with very large repo, helm-projectile is far more faster than counsel-projectile. But maybe it is because I am using wrong regex engine, I am not sure. These are just some most significant feelings I have after switched to Ivy. I believe there are more along with my Ivy life... >>>> I think the biggest change helm brings is that it uses buffer instead of >>>> mini-buffer to display its results. >>> >>> How is that beneficial? (I don't claim it isn't - I just don't know >>> what are the pluses.) >> >> Here "change" is a neutral word. >> >> Some people like it, some people don't. >> >> Some people say that using an individual buffer may display more >> information, such as file size, directory etc for buffer list. >> >> IMHO most information is not really needed (by me). >> >> So personally I could accept it, but I don't miss it after switching to >> Ivy. > > I see. > > Thanks, > > -- > Marcin Borkowski > http://mbork.pl