From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eric Abrahamsen Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#35383: 27.0.50; Complete process of decoding Gnus group names Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2019 13:04:31 -0700 Message-ID: <87sgu0h92o.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> References: <878sw1995f.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87sgu87ayo.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87k1fj49o2.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87bm0uhxqy.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87d0l5ihgr.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <878svtihdw.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <835zqwu8cq.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="117939"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: yamaoka@jpl.org, 35383@debbugs.gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Apr 29 22:05:16 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hLCWa-000UWU-0u for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 29 Apr 2019 22:05:16 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34587 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hLCWZ-0004Gw-2w for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 29 Apr 2019 16:05:15 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:43131) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hLCWM-0004Gk-Tz for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 29 Apr 2019 16:05:03 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hLCWL-0003Gy-UY for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 29 Apr 2019 16:05:02 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:54521) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hLCWL-0003Gj-Qq for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 29 Apr 2019 16:05:01 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hLCWL-0006gw-KQ for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 29 Apr 2019 16:05:01 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eric Abrahamsen Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2019 20:05:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 35383 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 35383-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B35383.155656828425691 (code B ref 35383); Mon, 29 Apr 2019 20:05:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 35383) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Apr 2019 20:04:44 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39832 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hLCW3-0006gJ-VP for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 29 Apr 2019 16:04:44 -0400 Original-Received: from ericabrahamsen.net ([52.70.2.18]:51976 helo=mail.ericabrahamsen.net) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hLCW1-0006g4-0x for 35383@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 29 Apr 2019 16:04:42 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost (unknown [205.175.106.8]) (Authenticated sender: eric@ericabrahamsen.net) by mail.ericabrahamsen.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id F31F3FA023; Mon, 29 Apr 2019 20:04:34 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: <835zqwu8cq.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Mon, 29 Apr 2019 18:41:41 +0300") X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 209.51.188.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:158449 Archived-At: On 04/29/19 18:41 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> From: Eric Abrahamsen >> Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2019 21:07:23 -0700 >> Cc: 35383@debbugs.gnu.org >> >> > The goal is to have Gnus default to writing its active files in >> > 'utf-8-emacs, unless the user has specifically requested otherwise. >> > `nnmail-active-file-coding-system' governs the "mail" type servers, and >> > `gnus-agent-file-coding-system' governs the agent. Currently those two >> > options default to 'raw-text, we'd like them to default to 'utf-8-emacs. >> >> Actually, maybe that's wrong. We don't care how the files are written, >> only that, after parsing, the group names are successfully _decoded_ to >> 'utf-8-emacs. Maybe I'm trying too hard? > > When you decode _any_ text by _any_ coding-system, the result is > _always_ utf-8-emacs, because utf-8-emacs is the internal > representation of characters and raw bytes in Emacs buffers and > strings. I did know that much! I'm pretty bad at encoding, but not quite that bad. > We write text out as utf-8-emacs when we don't want to risk the danger > of decoding incorrectly due to local customizations and language > environments. Text encoded in utf-8-emacs can by definition represent > _any_ character and raw byte that Emacs can read, and the "decoding" > in this case is trivial. > > So no, you are not trying too hard, not IMO. So you think Gnus' various *-file-coding-system options should default to 'utf-8-emacs rather than 'raw-text? As per your other message, it sounds like active files written as 'raw-text will probably survive being read as 'utf-8-emacs. And if the user has previously customized those options to something else, the change in default value won't matter anyway. What I meant by "trying too hard" is, maybe it's enough to just change the defaults, and not add any other error checking and guarantees? Thanks for looking at this, Eric