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From: Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor <help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Emacs i18n
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2021 13:16:38 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <87sg07c3xl.fsf@zoho.eu> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 14151570.3RPpvrhc5F@galex-713.eu

Alexandre Garreau wrote:

> you say “why would people put themselves at disadvantage”
> while not everyone lives with unique main purpose to be “the
> best”, and not doing an effort to be above some level is not
> “purposedly putting oneself at disadvantage”.

Ah, "the best", you don't have to aim for that to be
benefited, but if you aim for at least one of the better
versions of yourself, that's honorable! When I was healthy
physically and mentally, I aimed for the say top 5% best
version of myself, now I have both been forced and learned to
take life less seriously, so say I now aim for a top 20%
version of myself or something like that, It is just a digit;
but yes, let me say this, if we are talking young people and
young adults in an education and/or technology setting, most
definitely they should do as I and aim for the top 5% of
themselves or even higher if that's their inclination,
absolutely, and if they find people to compete with in
a healthy and balanced way - I mean, it doesn't matter what
I say, this is already what happens everywhere anyway - GO FOR
IT, and most definitely their ambitions should include
mastering English good enough for all practical purposes and
situations they will encounter in their careers as
practitioners, craftsmen, athletes, family members, all of it,
human beings! People are certainly not perfect and that
includes me but I did at least some good things, that said I'm
confident the generations younger than me will beat me without
any super-human effort from their part :)

> you say restricting oneself to a non-english language is
> stupid hence translating from english is stupid, but as we
> already said, many people *already speak english* and yet
> prefer to read in their native language, and yet a book in
> english might be a barrieer. A ~1000 pages book might be
> considered difficult to begin with, if it’s in the native
> language it will be deemed a lot easier. Same for manuals,
> references, etc.

But how long will it take to translate it? How much money and
how many man hours, how much skill? Why waste it on something
that will help a very small group of people, and then only
marginally (it's debatable, if they are benefited even, as
said)? All this to offer something that is already there in
its original, intended form and will take what, 1-2 years to
translate, typeset, print, ship? Something that the proposed
audience could just grab without delay and with nothing "lost
in translation", literally, if they would just master English?
Which they should do anyway if they have any ambitions in
a field where English is so dominant, actually even more so
than everywhere else, where English happens to also be
completely dominant? Does this make any sense to you?

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal




  reply	other threads:[~2021-07-21 11:16 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 238+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2021-07-17  9:27 Emacs i18n Narendra Joshi
2021-07-17  9:36 ` Thibaut Verron
2021-07-17  9:53 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-07-17 13:32   ` mrf
2021-07-17 14:01     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-07-17 20:00       ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-07-17 20:57         ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-17 22:06           ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2021-07-17 22:55             ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-07-18  2:26               ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2021-07-19  1:53                 ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-18  6:47               ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-07-19  1:52               ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-19  1:51             ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-19  5:28               ` Thibaut Verron
2021-07-21  5:24                 ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-21  6:32                   ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-07-21  9:45                     ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-21 10:16                       ` Christopher Dimech
2021-07-21 12:08                         ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-21 12:36                           ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-07-21  8:28                   ` Christopher Dimech
2021-07-21  8:39                     ` tomas
2021-07-21  9:18                       ` Christopher Dimech
2021-07-21 10:52                         ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-21 11:53                           ` Christopher Dimech
2021-07-21 12:56                     ` Jean Louis
2021-07-21 13:23                       ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-21 13:39                         ` Thibaut Verron
2021-07-21 14:05                           ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-21 14:47                             ` Thibaut Verron
2021-07-21 17:55                               ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-21 18:15                                 ` Thibaut Verron
2021-07-21 18:26                                   ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-21 18:27                                   ` Christopher Dimech
2021-07-21 18:42                                     ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-21 19:06                                       ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-21 19:40                                     ` Stefan Monnier via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-21 20:49                                       ` Christopher Dimech
2021-07-21 21:44                                         ` Stefan Monnier via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-21 21:58                                           ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-21 22:55                                             ` Stefan Monnier via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-22  7:05                                               ` Christopher Dimech
2021-07-22  8:11                                                 ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-22  8:16                                                   ` tomas
2021-07-22  9:24                                                   ` Christopher Dimech
2021-07-22  5:49                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-07-22 10:04                                           ` Christopher Dimech
2021-07-21 21:57                                       ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-22  7:09                                         ` tomas
2021-07-22  8:17                                           ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-22  9:18                                             ` lisa-asket
2021-07-22  3:48                                       ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-07-22  4:08                                         ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-22  7:10                                           ` tomas
2021-07-21 14:22                       ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-21 17:02                       ` Christopher Dimech
2021-07-21 17:49                         ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-19 11:43               ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-07-21  6:11                 ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-21  7:02                   ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-21  8:43                     ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-21 10:04                       ` Christopher Dimech
2021-07-21 10:14                         ` tomas
2021-07-21 10:34                         ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-07-21 11:16                           ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor [this message]
2021-07-21 13:01                       ` Jean Louis
2021-07-21 13:51                         ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-22  8:15                         ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-07-22 17:32                       ` Yuri Khan
2021-07-22 18:02                         ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-07-21  7:31                   ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-07-21  7:47                     ` Thibaut Verron
2021-07-21  9:59                       ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-21 10:28                         ` Christopher Dimech
2021-07-21 11:49                           ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-21 12:44                             ` Christopher Dimech
2021-07-21 13:20                               ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-23  6:03           ` Jean Louis
2021-07-23  9:22             ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-27 20:52               ` Christopher Dimech
2021-07-17 22:03         ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2021-07-19  1:46           ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-07-18  6:28         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-07-17 20:06   ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-07-17 22:03     ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2021-07-18  6:30     ` Eli Zaretskii
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2019-03-20 11:59 Bruno Haible
2019-03-20 16:36 ` Paul Eggert
2019-03-20 21:32 ` Juri Linkov
2019-03-21  2:14   ` Richard Stallman
     [not found]     ` <E1h6nE3-0000bt-SW-iW7gFb+/I3LZHJUXO5efmti2O/JbrIOy@public.gmane.org>
2019-03-21 21:45       ` Juri Linkov
2019-03-23  2:28         ` Richard Stallman
2019-03-23  7:55           ` Yuri Khan
     [not found]             ` <CAP_d_8WjQwAtcWCfkjXHtc-dqYyBfnaP0+9L8KK6eCp4r_ZsPQ-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2019-03-23 17:50               ` Ineiev
2019-03-24  1:43               ` Richard Stallman
     [not found]           ` <E1h7WOF-0006T8-Be-iW7gFb+/I3LZHJUXO5efmti2O/JbrIOy@public.gmane.org>
2019-03-23 21:48             ` Juri Linkov
2019-03-24  1:47               ` Richard Stallman
2019-03-22 20:50       ` Chusslove Illich
     [not found]   ` <87h8bx5ijn.fsf-i9wRM+HIrmlRTR8OWt4JRw@public.gmane.org>
2019-03-21  2:55     ` Bruno Haible
2019-03-21  2:14 ` Richard Stallman
2019-03-22  1:26   ` Bruno Haible
2019-03-23  2:29     ` Richard Stallman
2019-02-18  0:35 bug#34520: delete-matching-lines should report how many lines it deleted 積丹尼 Dan Jacobson
2019-02-27 21:36 ` Juri Linkov
2019-02-28  3:34   ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-02-28 21:33     ` Juri Linkov
2019-03-01  3:59       ` Richard Stallman
2019-03-02 20:55         ` Juri Linkov
2019-03-03  3:04           ` Richard Stallman
2019-03-03 15:31             ` Emacs i18n (was: bug#34520: delete-matching-lines should report how many lines it deleted) Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-03 20:57               ` Emacs i18n Juri Linkov
2019-03-04  1:46                 ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2019-03-06  9:38                   ` Elias Mårtenson
2019-03-06 11:23                     ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2019-03-21 20:33                   ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2019-03-21 20:50                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-21 21:03                       ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2019-03-21 21:21                         ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2019-03-21 21:34                           ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2019-03-21 21:56                             ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2019-03-21 22:05                               ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2019-03-21 23:46                                 ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2019-03-22  8:22                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-22 16:10                           ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2019-03-22 16:35                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-22 17:16                               ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2019-03-22 17:35                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-22 23:17                                   ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2019-03-21 21:17                     ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2019-03-21 21:59                     ` Juri Linkov
2019-03-22  8:22                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-23 21:50                         ` Juri Linkov
2019-03-24  3:36                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-24 21:55                             ` Juri Linkov
2019-03-24 23:31                               ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2019-03-25 21:32                                 ` Juri Linkov
2019-03-25 22:31                                   ` Paul Eggert
2019-03-26 16:11                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-26 16:22                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2019-03-26 16:55                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-26 22:35                                       ` Paul Eggert
2019-03-27  3:43                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-28 14:56                                           ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2019-03-28 15:52                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-27  2:34                                       ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2019-03-26 23:16                                     ` Juri Linkov
2019-03-27  1:35                                       ` Paul Eggert
2019-04-24  6:39                                       ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2019-04-24 20:18                                         ` Juri Linkov
2019-03-25  3:35                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-25  9:04                                 ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2019-03-25 21:02                                 ` Juri Linkov
2019-03-26  3:27                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-27 23:06                                     ` Richard Stallman
2019-03-25 10:52                               ` Mattias Engdegård
2019-03-25 15:37                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-25 21:11                                 ` Juri Linkov
2019-03-25 22:05                                   ` Mattias Engdegård
2019-03-27 21:22                                     ` Juri Linkov
2019-03-28 11:03                                       ` Mattias Engdegård
2019-03-04  3:27               ` Emacs i18n (was: bug#34520: delete-matching-lines should report how many lines it deleted) Richard Stallman
2019-03-04 16:36                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-04 18:37                   ` Paul Eggert
2019-03-04 19:07                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-05  2:09                       ` Paul Eggert
2019-03-05 21:58                         ` Emacs i18n Juri Linkov
2019-03-06  2:16                           ` Richard Stallman
2019-03-06 18:15                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-06 19:47                               ` Paul Eggert
2019-03-06 20:19                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-07  1:52                                   ` Paul Eggert
2019-03-07  3:37                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-08  4:07                                       ` Richard Stallman
2019-03-08  8:16                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-08  4:07                                 ` Richard Stallman
2019-03-08  4:33                                   ` Elias Mårtenson
2019-03-08  8:22                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-09  3:11                                     ` Richard Stallman
2019-03-09  7:54                                       ` Paul Eggert
2019-03-09 10:30                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-10  3:05                                         ` Richard Stallman
2019-03-10  6:07                                           ` Paul Eggert
2019-03-11  1:20                                             ` Richard Stallman
2019-03-11  3:52                                               ` Paul Eggert
2019-03-12  3:31                                                 ` Richard Stallman
2019-03-12  3:31                                                 ` Richard Stallman
2019-03-10  8:45                                           ` Yuri Khan
2019-03-10  3:05                                         ` Richard Stallman
2019-03-10  6:14                                           ` Paul Eggert
2019-03-10  3:05                                         ` Richard Stallman
2019-03-07  3:42                               ` Richard Stallman
2019-03-07 14:46                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-07 17:19                                   ` Paul Eggert
2019-03-07 18:24                                     ` martin rudalics
2019-03-07 18:44                                       ` Paul Eggert
2019-03-07 20:22                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-07 22:25                                       ` Paul Eggert
2019-03-08  7:29                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-08  4:18                                       ` Richard Stallman
2019-03-08  4:11                                   ` Richard Stallman
2019-03-06 17:30                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-06 18:09                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-06 19:39                             ` Paul Eggert
2019-03-06 19:49                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-07  1:33                                 ` Paul Eggert
2019-03-07  3:30                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-07 16:06                                     ` Paul Eggert
2019-03-07  4:35                                   ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2019-03-07 16:04                                     ` Paul Eggert
2019-03-08  4:09                                     ` Richard Stallman
2019-03-11 21:48                                     ` Juri Linkov
2019-03-11 22:51                                       ` Paul Eggert
2019-03-12 21:45                                         ` Juri Linkov
2019-03-17 21:23                                           ` Juri Linkov
2019-03-18 21:20                                             ` Juri Linkov
2019-03-18 21:55                                               ` Paul Eggert
2019-03-19 20:40                                                 ` Juri Linkov
2019-03-11 23:59                                       ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2019-03-12  9:16                                       ` Michael Albinus
2019-03-06 19:47                             ` Paul Eggert
2019-03-06 20:21                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-07  1:43                                 ` Paul Eggert
2019-03-07  3:31                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-07  3:44                             ` Richard Stallman
2019-03-07 14:48                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-07 22:29                                 ` Juri Linkov
2019-03-08  1:48                                   ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2019-03-08  8:08                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-08 15:11                                       ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2019-03-08 20:11                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-09  2:44                                           ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2019-03-09  6:40                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-09  8:37                                               ` Michael Albinus
2019-03-09 10:45                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-09 11:27                                                   ` Michael Albinus
2019-03-09 17:23                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-09 19:55                                                       ` Paul Eggert
2019-03-09 20:07                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-09 20:47                                                           ` Paul Eggert
2019-03-09 20:04                                                       ` Michael Albinus
2019-03-09 20:14                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-09 19:22                                                     ` Paul Eggert
2019-03-09 19:39                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-09 20:48                                                         ` Paul Eggert
2019-03-09 20:08                                                       ` Michael Albinus
2019-03-10  3:09                                                       ` Richard Stallman
2019-03-10 13:38                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-08  7:37                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-03-09  3:12                                     ` Richard Stallman
2019-03-08  4:11                                 ` Richard Stallman

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